Help! She's vomiting!

[screamingeagle]

I came home this afternoon to find Spirit up on her cage perch "sneezing", but not the normal type. Now I think she'd been vomiting. But I opened the cage to let her out, and she flew off, eventhough I had treats for her, which she never refuses. Then she started vomiting green mucous stuff (little bits, not a bunch). So I cralwed up to the cupbaords and grabbed her, she didn't even try to run away. I wrapped her in a towel, and she kept vomiting. I searched old topics on here; her crop felt really hard, so I thought impacted crop. Called the vet, only one open was emergency vet. So my husband told me not to wait until her normal vet opened tomarrow, but just go and pay the $85 to get her looked at today.

So I did, and the vet took a poop culture, and tried to scringe out fluid in her crop, but came up with nothing. even put some saline solution in, and only a bit of that came back out, so she tested it for yeast, and found nothing. She thought it was just a behavior thing because Spirit was nesting and had been courting Salome a week ago. But she's still vomiting. It's maybe every 15 minutes. Nothing but green mucous. Poop had been fine. I don't know if she's eating or drinking. Currently have her in small cage to watch her. She's just standing there, hasn't really moved around much. I hadn't noticed any other weird behavior except for 2 days ago she flew off the chair quickly and started kinda shaking, or acting like something had bit her and she was looking around for it because she pecked at her feathers here and there.

She ate some treats last night. The only other thing I noticed, is that her and Salome (her husband) both seemed to have kinda watery green poop, but I didn't know if that's because of nesting and holding it in. Spirit has seemed to have been eating less food that normal, but again, didn't know if that was due to nesting.

Anyone have any advice/ ideas?? I just paid $100 (including lab tests) for the vet to tell me she was probably fine. Should I get something to boost her immune system??
She seems ok at the moment, but I will keep an eye on her to see if she eats/drinks.

Thanks

Suzanne

[screamingeagle]

Update-

She just ate some food, and drank some water. Her vision seem a bit off to me, as she pecked at the food and dipped her beak into the water. Seemd fine at first, then walked a few steps and put her head back like and indian fantail, and pushed her chest out, and just stood there with eyes shut. She stopped it, but she still doesn't act right. And her vomit smells kinda like yeast to me (I am covered in it at the moment, and can smell it on my clothes), I know the vet didn't find anything, but I don't think she really tried to get a good sample.

Any help is appreciated!

Suzanne

[TAWhatley]

Hi Suzanne,

Well, I hate to disagree with the vet, but there is something wrong with the bird in my opinion.

Is the crop still hard or now empty?

Have a look at this site and scroll down to "Vomiting" on the left and then look at the matching topics on the right.

http://www.chevita.com/tauben/e-index3.html


It's impossible for me to tell what is going on but I would make a guess at candida (sour crop).

For the moment, keep the bird warm and quiet and make sure it continues to drink. With the vomiting dehydration is a possibility.

Please keep us posted.

Terry

[Reti]

Hi Suzanne,
I am so sorry your baby is sick. Her behavior does not sound normal. Since the doctor found nothing I don't know what to tell you. What I would do is take her back tomorrow to her regular vet. For now give her, if you have, Pedialyte or Gatorade. My vet said it is good that it prevents dehydration. And I don't think she should eat anything for now.
Angel vomits always in the car but only one time it smelled bad when she had canker.
I hope she is feeling better already.
Wish you the best.
Keep us posted
Reti


------------------

[maryco]

Hello,

This rings a bell!!

My Tooty has the same problem- Exactly the same!!!

I took him to the vet right away after he started vomitting green mucous and they did a test as I thought it was yeast but the vet said there was no yeast at all or anything... in fact he said he didn't even have any good gut flora so he gave me tons of protiotics to use for awhile.
I was sure it was a yeast infection but it wasn't. Later on that day he developed a sour crop (well I think that was it) his crop grew in side and everything he ate just sat in it. I went back to the vet and he gave me some pills to help aid in the digestion and showed me how to tube feed and so I did with very thin formula. Sadly Tooty passed away (I didn't want to say this part and I don't want to scare you.. I must say though that Tooty was on antibiotics before that from a broken toe but the vet said that the amount was way too little to even cause a yeast infection.. Until today no one knew what really happened)

Was Spirit put on any meds before this? Try some probiotics, my vet said this could be the cause when there is no good gut flora. get some good probiotics from your vet.

I'm sorry I don't have any other suggestions now..

Please keep us posted!

Mary

[screamingeagle]

No, she hasn't been on any meds, except for last week I gave them some garlic water, mixed according to directions on this site. That was sevral days ago though. I haven't felt her crop since I got home, but it felt the same at the vets as before I had brought her in. The vet said she just felt air in it, probbaly from her scringe when she tried to suck stuff out.

I just felt her, and it didn't feel as hard as before. It's been a little over an hour, and she hasn't thrown up any more, even after a bit of food. She seemed happier, and somehow had cleaned all the green slime off her face (I haven't a clue how she did this, maybe dunked her head into the water?) I let her out, and she flew up onto the door, and did her happy puff feather shake, which she usually does when she's happy. So I shook the treat jar, and she came right over and gobbeld some down (I only gave her a few). So I put her back into her regular cage so she could sit on the eggs and give her husband a break. I am going to continue to watch her, and make sure she's drinking.

The vet had told me to give her some food and see if she throws it back up. She also said that Spirit had probably over stuffed herself, and ended up throwing it all back up. I did have Pedialyte, but it's pretty old, and says on the bottle to keep no longer than 48hrs. So I tossed it.

What are probiotics? Can I get something like that at the pet store?

Mary, actually I ran into that exact post about Tooty when I was searching for info on here. The part about him eating lots of grit struck a chord because Spirit had been doing the same thing.But the vet didn't think that was the problem.

Should I try some apple cider vinegar??? I read that helps keep yeast away, but doesn't really treat it.

Thanks, I'll keep you posted-

Suzanne

[This message has been edited by screamingeagle (edited October 26, 2003).]

[turkey]

All I can do is a lot of guessing. Maybe a brewers yeast pill would help. The only reason I suggest that is my probiotics is loaded with it.

Yes, Apple Cider Vinegar is good for building gut flora. You can get it at a grocery store.

Maybe your pigeon got a hold of something it shouldn't have. I have seen the green slimey stuff before. My pigeons have vomitted before and I didn't know why. The slimey stuff was accompanied with seeds that have been partially digested.

When you took her to the vet what kind of testing did he do? A throat swab? That would show canker and yeast. A fecal float? That would show Coccidiosis among other things.

Julie

[maryco]

Hello,

Yes give the apple cinder vinegar as Julie said..
Also probiotics are the good gut bacteria that is found in yogurt (Bacterial Culture) ever heard of it?
Some people give their birds yogurt for the probiotics but my birds get sick so I don't bother and anyway the yogurt has to be Organic my vet said (I have organic yogurt but I watched a show that did a study about yogurts and probiotics and said every one has a really little amount even the organic one being top on the list)
I use the powder that I bought from Sigel called "digestal" or I used the bright green gooey kind that comes in the syringes from my vet (He says that kind is the best but it's quite expensive, I would suggest you use it though)

Hope that helps!

Mary

[maryco]

Yes, I remember the grit could have done it to Tooty.. Now my birds Pearl and Dotty get really slimey bright green poop for about 3 hours after eating any grit.. I don't know why but it happens every time.. Maybe it's cleaning out their system or something. Later on poop goes back to normal so I don't have to worry.

[Scuiry]

In my experience the likely causes of this are sour crop and adeno virus. Without a lab test you cannot tell if it has adeno virus but the treatment is still antibiotics (yes I know that sounds silly with a virus but that is what I've had to do). Adeno virus is especially deadly to youngsters (under nine months).

I'm a little reluctant to give solids to a bird that is vomiting. Perhaps you could try emaciation protocols until the crop starts moving again but I'm really guessing about this.

Any chance there is a trich lesion in the crop blocking the esophagus and causing the food to get stuck, sour and cause vomiting? Even if you don't see a lesion anywhere I'd have the vet do a lab smear anyway and see if there are any trich bugs present. A pigeon can have active lesions that are not apparent in a visual exam so the lab smear is the only way to tell.

Daniel

[Trees Gray]

I'm so sorry to hear about this Suzanne, I understand how worried you must be..

For pro-biotics you can get this neat gel, called pro-biocin from Jeffers Pets. (They have a website) Just measure out a pea size of it and dispense down the throat. I've got one of my birds on it cause he is on antibiotics, and it works fast. You use it only once every 3 days.

I wouldn't put her on solids just yet, but DO give the bird Pedyalite.

I would take Spirit to back to her regular avian vet, also.

I will keep Spirit in my prayers.

Treesa

[screamingeagle]

Spirit is still sitting on her eggs. I can't tell if she's thrown up more or not. Looks like she might have, but I can't tell if the stains are from yesterday or today. I am waiting for her to get off the nest, then I'll put her back into the small cage to watch her and make sure she's drinking and not throwing up.

The vet did do a fecal float but said she was testing for parasites, she didn't swab the throat, but sucked a tiny amount of the saline solution she'd put in, back out to test for yeast. I didn't see and canker, and she didn't either. She offered me some canker meds just in case, but I have those here at home anyway.

Should I go ahead and treat for canker? Would it hurt her if she doesn't have it?I'll pick up some ACV today, and look for brewers yeast.

I have read a little on here about using yogurt on hand few babies who have sour crop. Should I try giving her some watered down yogurt (or full strength)?

The vet called to check on her, and said that maybe she's practicing regurgitating food for when the egg hatches. Or that maybe she's egg bound. Both theories don't really seem likely to me since Spirit just laid her eggs last week, and she did lay 2.

I'll also call the different pet stores around here, and see if anyone sells probiotics. I'd order online, but I did that last time with the canker meds, and they didn't arrive until 3 days after my pigeon died.

If she keeps throwing up today, I'll take her back to the vet, but my vet because he deals alot with feral pigeons, and I don't think the last vet knew much about pigeons.

Thanks everyone for all your advice. I will keep watching her.

Suzanne

My opinion. I agree with Scuiry. One of the two. Yes, apple cider vinegar will work good, but I'm guessing he needs to be on Flagyl for maybe an E-coli bacteria too. I had a similar problem with one and that's what they told me was causing the sour crop. And the throwing up.

Second, I would like to say this again, a lot of vets, especially emergency vets, don't understand the most commond diseases of pigeons as they don't treat that many.

The the crop area is full of air and puffy, it could be air saculitis but not real familiar with this to know if it can cause vomiting. You may want to read up on it or someone here may have had an experience with it. Good luck. I am thinking this poor bird should have been put on antibiotics.

[JGregg]

The vomiting sounds horrible, and I wouldn't say that she is practicing reguritation or egg bound. If it is yeast (which I doubt it is)about 1cc (1 ml)of yougurt should be given to Spirit twice a day. Poor little birdlet,I hope it all turns out well.

[screamingeagle]

Well, Spirit hasn't thrown up since sunday, and seems to be in good spirits. I mixed gatorade into the water just in case she was dehydrated, but seemed to be drinking good. Eating food just fine too. I don't know why she'd been throwing up, maybe she had eaten something on the floor that didn't agree with her. None of the pet stores sold probiotics, and weren't too helpful.

As soon as we're moved, I'll get on foys, or global or jedds and get some immunity builders, and look at basic meds to keep around the house just in case.

I really hadn't expected indoor birds to get sick since they're not exposed to stuff from outside, and get a good diet. but I'll start doing the ACV once a week, and brwers yeast just to keep them healthy.

Thanks everyone for all your help. If she gets sick again, I guess i'll be back for help, LOL!

Suzanne