MORE questions from a first time owner

[ShamusRD]

Hi everybody!
First of all, thanks very much for the wealth of responses to my first post. I'm still new to this, so I have a few more questions for anyone who has a minute to help me out. I really want my pigeon (I named her Cora) to get used to me and her new home.

I'll preface this posting with a few details about her current living situation:
I'm in college (Wesleyan University) and I have my own room in one of the dormitories here. It's a pretty large room, so there's plenty of room for the both of us. I built a cage out of an old shopping cart (I'll post pictures soon) and it works extremely well. It cost zero dollars to make and it works better and is more sturdy than most cages that you'll find in a pet store. I removed everything from the carriage, so it actually looks like a real cage too, not like a shopping cart. For the first few days, I kept her in the cage and let her out when I wanted to play with her (or try to...). She immediately took a liking to certain spots in my room (specifically my lamp shade and the top shelf of my closet). Now, the problem is that she never wants to go back into her cage. I keep her food and water in there, but I'm not sure that she knows to fly into her cage when she's hungry or thirsty. I force her to go into her cage a few times each day so that she can eat or drink if she needs to. She's terribly afraid of my hands and it's getting more and more difficult to grab her and put her in her cage. I've got some popcorn as a snack for her and she'll eat that out of my hand once in a while. She'll stay on my shoulder if I put her there, but I don't think that she recognizes that it's me she's standing on and not just another perch. My goal is to have her ride around on my shoulder all day and come back to me when I call her, but I don't feel like I'm making enough progress with her to make that happen. The problem is that she won't let my put my hands near her. I don't pull them away when she pecks at them, but she flies away if I get too close. It's just frustrating that she doesn't realize that I love her and that I mean her no harm! I hear you guys talking about your pigeons playing with you and landing on you etc., and I'm very jealous. I guess I'm wondering whether or not I'm giving her too much freedom and she's taking it for granted. In other words, I got a number of responses to my last post that said that I should spend time with her when she's in her cage. Is the fact that she never uses her cage anymore a problem? I'm around her 24/7, but she still doesn't want anything to do with me.
Another thing I'm a little worried about is whether or not she's getting enough sleep. Sometimes she'll close her eyes for a little while and then open them and look around and then close them again and so on, but it doesn't seem like she relaxes fully. She'll squat down or stand on one leg sometimes (I have no idea why that helps them relax), but I've never actually seen her sleep for a long time. I've been trying to take naps myself more frequently so that there will be a long period of complete silence for her. Should I just assume that she is getting as much sleep as she needs?
I tried to give her a bath the other day, but she wouldn't hear of it. I filled a large container with a few inches of water and set her in it, but she only walked around for a minute and then flew out. How often should she bathe and how should I go about bathing her?
She's also been sneezing (?) a lot. Is this a problem? Also, sometimes she growls for no reason...is that ok? What could it mean?
One last question: Is there any way to grab her (to put her back in her cage, etc.) without scaring her?

OK, sorry this post is so long. I'll post some pictures of Cora and her cage soon!

James (Jamie) Dutcher

[fred2344]

James (Jamie),
These birds hate to be grabbed. That's an instinct that they cannot shed, even with a person they trust.
The secret to increasing their comfort level is to hand tame them so that when they see the hand, they will know they are safe "from attack."
You have to be very consistent with this: Slowly extend your hand to the bird and place it under the breast, just above the legs. Say "up" and at the same time, press your hand upwards so that the bird feels forced to step onto your hand. This is not going to be successful for a while but eventually will work and will end the "grabbing days."
Keep working on the bird by spending a lot of time with him/her. Stay close, talk, whistle, etc. Put a deep pie plate or equivalent on the floor and fill it with water. They love to bathe and will eventually associate you with furnishing a pleasant experience. If you don't mind this, if you have the bird out, put it on your shoulder. The pigeon may not stay there but will eventually learn that it is a really good and safe "high place." Try to pet the cheeks and around the head. It takes time but these things do work. You ahve to undo mistrust from grabbing so it will take some time but stay with it.
Best of luck

[maryco]

Fred is very right... Pigeons do hate grabbing and you have to be as gentle as possible.

When I got my pigeons they were not tame, My feral would bite me sometimes but he wasn't as bad as others and actually let me hold him.

It took ALOT of time until he could trust me so that I could walk on the floor near him and he woudldn't fly away, Also I can easily scoop him up and he will sit on my hand (He can't sit on my shoulder by the way because he only has one leg) ..

His wife though a homing pigeon also was very frightened when I caught her but now will sit on my shoulder and let me pet and feed her while she sits on her eggs.

If you do have your pigeon in a cage slowly you could start practice, stroke his chest with the back of your index finger and then put some of his favourite seeds in your hand and see if he will eat them (Be sure to keep your hand very still)

Pigeons love treats like pop corn, safflower, thawed peas and corn, raw peanuts (NOT dry roased) Believe it or not my pigeons hate all that stuff and just go for the normal little red seeds in the mix.
They can't resist those if I got them in my hand.
I also offer sprouted lentils which my hen Pearl just loves!

I'm pretty sure your pigeon is sleeping.. My Dotty will moan like crazy when I get into bed and when the sun comes out.. He never seems to be asleep but if pigeons are kept indoors their life is full of rest (They don't have to look for food, fly around or do anything) ... So he should be ok.
The standing on one leg is perfectly normal, all birds do it and sitting in a little bun too.

As for bathing, I would put out a large tub of warm water then splash in it with your hands, Leave the room for awhile and you will see that he will go right in. Be sure to take a peek and see if he is in the tub.
Around the first few times you might have to stay away or he won't go and take a bath but later on you can sit near him and he won't mind.

The growling is normal, you could set up a mirror so he can admire himself in it..lol

Is it more of a long dragging moan sound that he is making?


Looking forward to the photos..

Mary

p.s You could take a look at my pigeons in the bath.. http://community.webshots.com/user/marypigeon

[AZWhitefeather]

Good morning,
OK Fred & Mary! You didn't give any suggestions on how to get Cora back in her cage when 'play time' is over. lol. I have the same situation with Frank. He absolutely won't get back in his cage. I'm not in a position to leave him out 24/7. AND he isn't even supposed to be able to fly. He does a darn good job of trying, I'll tell ya.
Seriously though, any suggestions?
Thanks.
Cindy

James,
Have you been initiated with a famous 'Pigeon wing slap'? If not, don't be alarmed. I have never enjoyed the 'ultimate' of surprise & try to forewarn new members who haven't had the pleasure of a Pigeon's company & some of their 'tricks of the trade' so to speak. You mentioned Cora will 'peck' at you, they also 'wing slap'. They will begin to raise one wing then proceed to swiftly 'slap' your hand. If you know it may be coming you won't be so inclined to rapidly draw back your hand, scaring you as well as Cora.
Please keep us updated on how Cora is doing & looking forward to pictures!
Cindy

You mentioned Cora 'sneezes' a lot. Keep an eye on that as it could just be allergies, a cold, etc., however other things can develope.
Here is a good reference site to keep handy: http://chevita.com/tauben/e-index3.html



[This message has been edited by AZWhitefeather (edited February 26, 2003).]

[fred2344]

Cindy,
You caught me! I have no idea how to gently get them back into the cages when playtime is over.

[fred2344]

Closing the eyes during the day is not a problem. Birds nap and I don't think it has anything to do with not getting enough sleep at night.
They have to shift their weight from one leg to another in order to give their feet a chance to rest so that's normal.
Growling is normal too but I wonder if this is a male.
When you put out water for a bath and she/he is curious, put your finger in and splash it a little bit. It may just be what is needed to get the bird to jump in. It's a matter of trust too. Stick with it. You would have had much less problems if you raised a baby but this can be done.

[Wild Dove]

Hi!
I don't know if this will work with Cora, but it worked really well with my Bailey, (who was very afraid of hands when I first got her...she is getting much better now...5 months later...patience, patience).
I use Fred's technique of having Bailey "step up" when I want to put her back in the cage, BUT I hide may hand in my sleeve and offer her my arm. Before hiding my hand, she would run away or just jiggle and stare, but now that I hide my hand, she literally hops onto my arm.
I then slowly draw her close to my chest with my other arm, (hand hidden). Once she feels secure, I begin to "preen" her, (move the feathers of her head and neck gently with a finger. I do this for a couple of moments so that she is nice and calm, then I carry her to the cage and put her in.
Another important thing is to offer your arm to "step up" on, (hide your hand for a while), when you are taking Cora OUT of the cage...don't just let her fly out on her own...this establishes a need for her to interact with you to get something she wants.
Wild Dove

[maryco]

Dawn,

My sister uses that "Hand hidden" technique with Pearl, It works great!

[Abby]

No matter how you catch her your going to scare her. Try getting her used to being handled. When you handle her be sure to support her feet so she dosen't feel like shes going to fall. Sneezing bring her to a vet now!! It's not serious yet. However, its very likely that it will progress. If you need anything abbyconnelly@mns.com

[Abby]

Forgot..
Bathe her every 2 months. Leave a filled sink/tub so she can bathe if she wants.

[re lee]

If the bird is inside you can let her bathe every other day . Pigeons like to bath. The sound if its when you catch it is a frightend bird if its just sitting and making the sound its kinda calling and wanting a mate to give it some attention. You could pull the feed let it get hungry and then put feed in your hand move slow towards it and extend your hand to gat it to eat from your hand. This will help to tame it to you. holding the bird. First the right way to hold a pigeon is put its legs between you middle fingers and grip it at the point just past center towards the back of the bird. the bird will except this handling easyer. to hand tame will take a little time. To get it to go back to its cage is not hard feed it there. do not leave extra feed just feed enough to let it eat in ten minutes remove excess. It will hungry at feed times and return to its cage. You can teach it by shaking the feed in say a coffe can and call it soon it will learn it time to eat and it will head to the feed.

[turkey]

In the summer my indoor pigeons demanded a bath every Tuesday, meaning once a week. I knew they wanted to bath because they were trying to wash their faces in their drinking water.

This time of year they don't ask to bath often. One week ago they bathed. I put bath water out tonight and got their attention but they did not take a bath.

You will not be able to make your pigeon bath if s/he does not want to.

Do you know how old s/he is?

It kind of sounds like you have a male, but females can also make that groaning sound. Has your pigeon laid any eggs?

Julie

[maryco]

Actually I let my pigeons bathe twice a week and perhaps more if the weather was hot.

Mary

[ShamusRD]

Thanks everybody. Yeah, s/he seems to be getting much better every day. In response to the speculation that Cora may in fact be a male, how often do pigeons lay eggs and after what age/stage of development? I'm not sure how old s/he is (s/he's fully grown) and I've had her for about 10 days. She hasn't laid any eggs yet.

Thanks!
James

[turkey]

I think they start to lay eggs (if female) at 4 months old.

Julie