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dpowell
Posted 24th August 2004, 12:51 PM
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Pigeon "Going Light"


I've had my pigeons on Doxycyline for 40 days now for the chlamydia. One pigeon was found Saturday in the corner on the floor. He was not keeping down any food and not eating or drinking. I've tube fed him some Formula 911 (vitamins, electrolytes, good gut bacteria) thinking the gut flora was messed up due to the antibiotics. He also has signs of canker, but he keeps throwing up the Canker tablet I have.

Need help in suggestions! I doubt he will last much longer going on day three now. I've sent off more poop to the lab for a more thorough study. Any suggestions of what to give him to get him to want to eat again??? He was throwing up the first day, but doesn't now...only when I try to force feed him soaked morsels or the tablet.


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AZWhitefeather AZWhitefeather is offline
Posted 24th August 2004, 08:40 PM
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Mesa, AZ USA
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He also has signs of canker, but he keeps throwing up the Canker tablet I have.
He was throwing up the first day, but doesn't now...only when I try to force feed him soaked morsels or the tablet.
Hello Donna,
I'm so sorry to hear your pij isn't doing well.
If it's the tablet itself that he can't tolerate, could you maybe dissolve a tablet in a bit of electrolyte solution & administer it via an eyedropper? This may be less tramatic for the little one & hopefully he will be able to keep it down. Just a thought.

I hope his condition reverses soon.

Cindy
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A Pigeon's Dream

http://www.pigeonangels.com

As we fly,
Let us be safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Let us find safety where we are welcome to stay.

Cynthia Boyce
dpowell
Posted 25th August 2004, 08:23 AM
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Hi there...I think we've made progress. Treesa, I did try the garlic capsule and that seemed to help! I tube fed some more Formula 911 coupled with a liquid Canker treatment I had, and he kept it down and had some decent looking poops. He still doesn't want to eat on his own. I force fed some soaked bird pellets that I give my starlings and he kept that down too. So hopefully he will make it. . I am flock treating for the canker now too, just in case. I get my results from Foy's back today.
dpowell
Posted 26th August 2004, 06:22 AM
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Still Sick-Pigeon throwing up


My poor pigeon is hanging in there...going on 6 days with mostly fluids. A few times he's been able to keep the food down, but the last several attempts, he's thrown it up. What else would cause this???? I haven't heard bck from Foy's, but the meds don't seem to be helping and he will die if he doesn't start eating.

Does anyone know how long a pigeon can go with just liquids with vitamins?
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Skyeking Skyeking is offline
Posted 26th August 2004, 09:06 AM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: United States
Location: SE Coast Central Florida
Posts: 23,202
Donna,

I'm so sorry about all the health issues you are dealing with your pigeons.

I do not know how long they can go on indefinitely, with liquids. You can pretty much tell by a birds behavior how he is feeling. Does he have an urge to do feather maintenance, move around much, or sit still and fluffed out? You can pretty much pick up on how he is by observing his behavior.

I have been told that the throwing up is either worms or lack of probiotics, but this is more complicated with all the other health issues.

If he is responding to the garlic capsules, continue to give him one each day, that is definite plus in the start of healing and rebuilding strength in the immune system.

I had a pigeon that stopped eating, but it was not physical, she just refused to eat, was unhappy, but would peck at every bird that came at her, but she never sat fluffed. I spoon fed her seed and forced water down her throat for two weeks, morning and evening plus the garlic capsule everyday! She finally began to eat on her own and I made some life style changes for her so she now has a mate again and is happy!

I can recommend a homeopathic prep my rehabber uses when pigeons or any other bird goes light. It is called Nux Vomica. it will straighten out tummy upsets, clean intestines, and work up an appetite. You can get these tiny pills at the health food store. Is the bird on any drugs now? I would not recommend using this until all drugs are out of his system.

Treesa

Treesa
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Snowbird Snowbird is offline
Posted 26th August 2004, 09:46 AM
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 172
Geez, 40 days of antibiotics; time to consider sour Crop (Candida), or Thrush. It is a very common disease, caused by a fungal infection of the digestive tract. It’s often associated with excessive use of antibiotics.

Symptoms of Sour Crop include listlessness, loss of appetite, weight loss, a water-filled crop, and frequent vomiting. The vomit often has a very putrid odor. Sometimes in lesser cases, thrush will show itself as just small whitish spots in the throat, which can cause confusion with Canker. Another symptom, not often noticed, is feather pulling in adult birds.

To prevent Sour Crop, avoid overcrowding, maintain a sanitary loft, and do not medicate indiscriminately, especially with antibiotics.

Nolvasan Liquid – A loft disinfectant which is an effective treatment for birds after prolonged medication. Nolvasan helps to provide a good environment for the replenishment of helpful "lactobacillus" gut bacteria, which are essential to maintaining good digestion. It is the lactobacillus which are destroyed during medication.
dpowell
Posted 26th August 2004, 01:15 PM
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Thanks Snowbird. I've seen the sour crop before, and this is not it. He processes the liquids fine. BUT, just got the call from Foy's. they Definitely need the probiotic in their gut and they found two tapeworms. My wormer doesn't kill tapeworms, but my new wormer that does, came in today. I"m not sure I will be able to save this little guy and not real sure this is his only problem. I think the lack of probiotics is probably more the problem. He's been on this mixture for four days now though....He probalby has the combination of being run down fromt he worms, antibiotics and no probiotics and the canker probably came out due to this condition, which is common. I only see canker in the mouth area, not throat, but it could be in the crop as well.

Again, I thought I was to wait until he was through, which is what Foy's said, but I started them anyway because He needed something.
dpowell
Posted 26th August 2004, 09:37 PM
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Maybe this is unrealistic to want to see results yet, but I gave the wormer about 4 hours ago. Nothing has come out of my bird. (figuring I'd see some segments of tapeworm). He threw up this mixture I made, mostly fluids, but some grainy food supplement that I mixed up in the water (earlier today). The granules were tiny but he threw them up. I'm so worried he's just not going to ever be able to hold food. I'm doing the probiotics (unless Foy's Formula 911 doesn't have enough) and I'm continuing the Canker meds (canker in the mouth, but thinking he could have lesions internally causing a blockage?).

Tomorrow will be 7 days...I don't know how this poor bird has lasted this long. I'm afraid to force feed any more solids, cuz then he just throws up everything when he tries to throw up the food. Does anyone know that after a Canker full course treatment, do the lesions last much longer? Could it be the lesions have to dry up and breakdown (if there are some internallY)? I've not had much experience with Canker.
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AZWhitefeather AZWhitefeather is offline
Posted 26th August 2004, 10:15 PM
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Mesa, AZ USA
Posts: 7,329
Does anyone know that after a Canker full course treatment, do the lesions last much longer? Could it be the lesions have to dry up and breakdown (if there are some internallY)
Hi Dona,
I'm really sorry your little pij is still having a tough go of it.
Kim (KIPPY) was caring for two pijjies that had extreme cases of canker to the point of their throats 'buldging'. We gave them a three day course of Spartrix & it seems like it took between 2-4 weeks for the canker to clear up.

Since there is evidence of canker in your pijjie's mouth, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of it being elsewhere in his system, which certainly could cause a blockage, especially given the constant vomiting. JMO.

Cindy
__________________
A Pigeon's Dream

http://www.pigeonangels.com

As we fly,
Let us be safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Let us find safety where we are welcome to stay.

Cynthia Boyce
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TerriB TerriB is offline
Posted 26th August 2004, 10:17 PM
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Kent, WA, USA
Posts: 4,724
Donna,

You are certainly going through the wringer on this! I've read that it can take three weeks for the cankerous material to break down. Several of my birds had problems and initially could only handle small, liquid meals. The vet said that the canker can leave open sores which are easily infected with bacteria, both of which can cause a bird to be nauseous and vomit. I had much better results dissolving the canker tablet in water first - perhaps not as harsh? Even once the birds were eating again, they needed small meals of small seeds for a while. Best of luck!
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Skyeking Skyeking is offline
Posted 27th August 2004, 08:12 AM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: United States
Location: SE Coast Central Florida
Posts: 23,202
Donna,

If your bird holds down the garlic capsule that is a great start. The garlic also gets rid of worms and things, and it may be stirring them up. I use it as part of my maintenance program. My rehabber has used it and removed tapeworms from squirrels and birds!

This is a natural remedy and the benefits of garlic increase as it is used long term basis. No parasites can maintain any stronghold in the gut with use of galic.

Treesa
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Every negative event effects my ability to own my APBT, please be a responsible owner and keep your pitbull out of trouble.
dpowell
Posted 27th August 2004, 09:44 AM
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Unhappy

Thanks so much everyone! I do feel there is probably canker blockage somewhere internally, so maybe this will just take some time. I'm glad to know others have had the same experience. Poor thing....he's hanging in there. Last night he even perched (first time in 6 days), but today, he's back to standing on the floor of the cage. I appreciate all the advice. I will continue with the garlic capsules. I also bought some Biochol which says it's good for the liver, digestion and increasing appetite. He's had about two doses of that (tube fed with his Formula 911).

Keep your fingers crossed, I fed him some soaked bird pellets this morning....if he keeps these down, it's progress...if not..I just don't know how long he can keep this up.

Just called home, husband said he threw up all the food

Last edited by dpowell; 27th August 2004 at 09:57 AM.
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Skyeking Skyeking is offline
Posted 27th August 2004, 04:06 PM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: United States
Location: SE Coast Central Florida
Posts: 23,202
Donna,

In answer to your E-mail the dose for the Nux Vomica is 2 tiny tablets for a smaller pigeon, lets say the size of a Cockateel or 3 for your standard size homing pigeon.

Start with two doses per day, and take it down to one dose in a few days, depending on the results. Make sure the bird is off any medications. You can use probiotics at a different time of day, just as a precaution.

If the bird is not holding down garlic capsules anymore, discontinue until the stomach is settled.

Treesa
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Every negative event effects my ability to own my APBT, please be a responsible owner and keep your pitbull out of trouble.
 

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