Probiotics

[Lovebirds]

What kind of human probiotics do you all use? I never knew such a thing existed. I always bought my from the pigeon supply places. I prefer to use one that can be put in water. I hate greasing up the feed and putting stuff on it. Some suggestions would be helpful as I'll be down in NC tomorrow in a big city, so I may actually be able to find what ever is recommended!! LOL

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Renee,

I use Swiss Natural Source - Lactobacillus & Bifidus, but I'm not sure if they are available in the USA. As well, I don't know if the powder can be mixed into the water, I've never tried it. I just pop the capsules down the birds' throats, but I know that wouldn't be convenient for you

http://www.swissherbal.ca/product_li...roductletter=l

[Birdmom4ever]

I buy Jarro Acidopholis from the health food store. My vet told me I should get probiotics from the health food store rather than those sold for birds because the product is useless if it isn't kept refrigerated. He also said there are better production controls for products designed for human consumption So far, every product I've seen formulated for animals wasn't refrigerated. You can get buy Jarro in capsules or powder. I do have to oil the seed and mix it, though. It's not water soluble.

[pigeonpoo]

I just use natural, live yoghurt - a teaspoonful in two pints of water. It does tend to settle so I usually take away the water, feed the birds and then, after half an hour, mix the water/yoghurt and give it them. This way they all go to drink straight away whilst the yoghurt is in suspension.

[Camrron]

I am using GNC Mega Acidophilus (General Nutrition Company) out of Greenville SC USA. Contains 1.5 billion live cells per capsule of Acidopholous and bifidobacterium bifidum in a pectin base. It is not readily soluable in cold water. It does dissolve in warm water but of course that would also destroy the live cells I am told so that is out of the question. I glisten the daily bird-seed allotment with a little olive oil then mix a capsule of the probiotic to the seed. If I give the birds a smaller than normal daily seed-feed, then all of the seeds (and along with it of course) all of the probiotic gets consumed. It has worked well so far.

Cameron

[Skyeking]

Hi Renee,

I use Solaray, Multidophiluswhich has L. Bulgaricus, L. Acidophilus, and B. Bifidum in it.

I have both powder kind and capsules. I use the capsules for rehab purposes with any bird that has wattery droppings. I gave Roscoe one down the throat the morning of the day he shipped. I figured he would be quite stressed and stress depleates good gut bacteria.

I use the powder once a week, over the seed with brewers yeast, multi-vitamin & mineral for pigeons and get it to stick with a few drops of Wheat Germ Oil. I give them just enough seed that I know they will finish it because it does leave the feeders a little messy. Then I clean the feers out and give them their next meal in clean feeders.

I have also used the powder in the water on occasions, but you have to mix it very well for a period of time, and then it does mix into the water.
I also use Total Flora which contains enzymes as well as some minerals. I used it very successfully for raising the two babies pets, Skye and Sonica. I added it to the Kaytee formula. This product is made by Infinity 2.

I have also used a very high quality home made keefer at times, which I have talked about in another thread. It is messy and you don't need to give much, as it is very healthy for even human babies after the age of 6 months as it does not contain Lactobacilus Acidophilus. It is important to note that Lactobacillus Acidophilus is only developed in the human digestive tract at around age 5 or 5 1/2 years. Feeding yoghurt to a young child therefore would be difficult to digest and mucous forming. Kefir, however, does not contain Lac. Acidophilus at all and is highly recommended for young children. Therefore I think this is very beneficial for youngsters as well as severe rehab birds with digestive issues.

Sorry to get carried away.

[Larry_Cologne]

I go to a local pigeon market and small animal market held almost every Sunday in Cologne. Five or ten pigeon fanciers usually show up, along with three or four pet product suppliers. Belgium has a lot of pigeon fanciers and Germany has 70,000 (from web info).

The suppliers don't push their products on you. I wanted probiotics for my one rescued pigeon. The supplier was sold out that day, but brought me 100 grams of Probi-Zyme in a smaller container the following week for 7€ (about $10) since I couldn't use the nomal package size. I looked up Probi-Zyme on the internet for your information, and incuded it below. (I am not necessarily recommending it, and I am definitely not desparaging it. I am simply listing it as info on what I use. My experience is limited to helping a few pigeons for a year or so).

Belgium has so many companies supplying so many different products for various types of pigeons in their different stages of growth and differing situations.

(If you Google the web for pigeon supplies, maybe use Google.nl for the Netherlands e.g., you will find many suppliers in Europe with multilingual websites. Most of them supply internationally, and many of their products are also at Jedd's and Foy's. Different websites provide product information in different ways. I find it interesting to compare different websites for the same product). Most Belgium and Dutch (Holland, Netherlands) sites have sections in English).

Since I have so much probiotic powder, I sometimes toss some with cracked bird seed, along with a bit of DE (diatomaceous earth) on occasion, add some spices (1 part ginger powder, 1 part cinnamon powder, 2 parts garlic powder). I toss the dry mix, add some olive oil when it is wet outside to repel water and snow, and if I feel somewhat scatter-brained, go out for a midnight stroll. I find no traces of it the next day. I suspect the ferals don't comply with city ordinances. If I am making any mistakes in the recipe, I am unaware of it so far.

We have made sourdough from a flour and water mix left standing to receive whatever spores drift in from the surrounding air, and it is usually delicious. We have kept it going for several months before it gets too strong and we have to start over. We have also used starter yeast from a health food store. My wife has made joghurt and also kefir from live yeasts from the health food store, kept them going until we tire of them after a while, take a break, and start over.

Our hand raised pigeon and his feral mate spend a good part of the day outsided everyday, and both are extremely healthy. The female is very wild. I supply them with good food, grit, and clean water, and have used some powder against parasites on him. I give them a few drops of ACV (apple cider vinegar) in 50 ml of water (a small hand-moisturizing-cream jar) occasionally. Since they are both basically outdoor birds, and very healthy and good looking, I am skimpy with supplements and vitamins. I don't want to overdose them on vitamins. I do watch them carefully, though. They have two beautiful eggs laid the past several days.

-------------------------

From website of birdbuffetnthings.com

http://birdbuffetnthings.com/tab1/st...em_id%253Dxxqr

Orlux Probi-zyme, 200g (7.05 oz), Price: $26.73, Usually ships in 48 hours
Orlux Probi-zyme is a combination of probiotics and digestion enzymes for birds. This product is not soluble in water and must be mixed in the food. Probi-zyme activates the benign intestinal flora and improves the digestion of the food. This product is also ideal to get the natural intestinal and crop flora started with young birds of one day.

Indicative nutrition values

Fungal amylase 1200 SKB/g
Acid staple protease 300 SAP/g
Fungal protease 3500 HUT/g
Cellulase 3200 C1ase/g
Amyloglucosidase 20 AG/g
Lactobacillus reuteri 450000000 CFU/g
Lactobacillus fermentum 450000000 CFU/g

[Skyeking]

Larry,

Sounds like you are doing great things for your birds. I am also not fond of the man made multi-vitamin minerals, and usually dose less then more.

If pigeons are such a popular sport,for racing, why are the ferals treated so differently and not allowed to be fed and treated so poorly. It didn't take me long to understand domestics are not superior to feral pigeons. It didn't take me long to realize that the sport has added to the ever increasing numbers of our ferals. The racing community is partly responsible and should help support the feral population (everyone that races should pay a tax upon each race to the govt. for helping our wild ferals), building a park to rehabiltate and care for our ferals, and build housing for them where real eggs can be replaced with dummy eggs.

Sorry this got off topic.

[Skyeking]

I got an additional probiotic at our local health food store a couple of weeks, and it is superior to the Solaray Multidopholis.

It includes 12 different strains of beneficial bacteria. B lactis, B bifidum, B infantis, B. longum, L acidophilus, L. brevis, L bulgaricus, L paracasel, L planatarum, L rhamnosus, L. salivarius, & Streptococcus thermophilus.

It comes in an even bigger capsule which can't be given by mouth, but I have used it in the birds water , and it mixes very easily in the water, and you can put it over the seed. They birds don't seem to have a problem with it in their water and drink it readily.

It may or may not come in a powder, but it is very effective and I recommend its use in rehab. It is more expensive then their other product, but I bought it on sale.

Here is their website:

http://www.affordablesolaray.com/dig...robiotics.html

[george simon]

I use JARROW-DOPHILUS which I buy at a local health food store.It contains 6 different probiotics.I use one capsule to 1 gallon of water[DISTILLED WATER],never use tap water as the clorine will kill the probotics making it useless.Each capsule contains 3.36 billion orgamisms THINGS TO REMBER 1.BUY ONLY BRANDS THAT ARE REFRIGATED,AND KEEP IN THE REFRIGERATOR 2.CHECK THE EXPORATION DATE,3.WHEN PUTTING IN WATER USE ONLY DISTILLED WATER AT ROOM TEMPERATURE. GEORGE SIMON

[Birdmom4ever]

Originally Posted by george simon

I use JARROW-DOPHILUS which I buy at a local health food store.It contains 6 different probiotics.I use one capsule to 1 gallon of water[DISTILLED WATER],never use tap water as the clorine will kill the probotics making it useless.Each capsule contains 3.36 billion orgamisms THINGS TO REMBER 1.BUY ONLY BRANDS THAT ARE REFRIGATED,AND KEEP IN THE REFRIGERATOR 2.CHECK THE EXPORATION DATE,3.WHEN PUTTING IN WATER USE ONLY DISTILLED WATER AT ROOM TEMPERATURE. GEORGE SIMON

I also use Jarrow-Dophilus and I've been very happy with it. What you said is exactly right, George--make sure it's refrigerated. My vet told me if it's not kept refrigerated it's worthless.

[Skyeking]

These products are usually found in the refrigerator section of your local health food stores.

[dovegirl]

What dosage of Probiotic would you give them?

I have 2 doves, and am not sure how much to give them.

Is it possible to give them too much?

[Skyeking]

Originally Posted by dovegirl

What dosage of Probiotic would you give them?

I have 2 doves, and am not sure how much to give them.

Is it possible to give them too much?

I give my pigeons about 1/2 teaspoon to a gallon water as a preventative. To rehab a bird with runny poops that is not feeling well, I would give a capsule down the throat for a few days. They usually respond well to it, and I don't think you have to worry about giving too much.

For doves I would empty a little of a capsule to their drinking water, or you can sprinkle part of a capsule over the food and get it to stick with a drop of wheat germ oil, or olive oil.

This last product I used, really mixes well in water.

[Birdmom4ever]

I agree with Treesa. I don't think you can give too much. I dose them about the same: 1/2 teaspoon on the feed, mixed with a little oil to make it stick. I've also administered capsules directly down the throat of a pigeon that had persistently runny droppings and the probiotics cleared it right up.