Shot Pigeon - 6 Weeks Later Need Help

[ChristyB]

Hello All,

Sorry this is long but I want to give full background. I have never had a bird before, let alone a pigeon, and am clueless in their manner.

6 weeks ago I found a limping roller pigeon at work. She had a leg band so I thought to catch and return her to her owner. I took her to an excellent vet while I searched and found that her leg wasn't just broken, but was shattered by passage of a pellet, which would up going through her from her upper leg to her chest. The pellet is lodged in the muscles of the chest now.

After X-Rays, the vet wanted to amputate the leg. I still hadn't found the owner and liked the bird so I agreed to surgery. After getting in there, the vet wanted to try reconstruction..which I was all for. After 6 weeks, 3 casts and a lot of money (but far less than she could have charged me), Charlie has only the slightest limp. She still has no proper femur, but the bits lined up enough to create a short bone bridge.

So all should be smooth sailing, right? Nope. She has no other pigeons with her and so is rather affectionate due to lonliness, I think, but shouldn't be catching any diseases either and is about 1 year old. During her third casting, she immediately began pecking at it. She also wasn't loosening her pin feathers much around her head and neck, making her look spikey. The vet said she was itchy from all the feathers growing in under the cast.

As soon as the cast came off 6 days ago, she pecked herself like crazy pulling all the bits off the feathers so they would fluff up. I got the ones on her head and neck for her. But she still pecks herself and to me it seems abrupt. She is molting a bit and her feathers are nice but not really shiney. Her eyes are dark orange and seem shiney to me.

She has also, over the past week, gotten greener and greener poops. They have a bit of water around them but are basically firm and grainy lumps. She has granite grit and I have added oyster shell to it. She won't eat any big seed..but rather picks out all the safflower and a few other small round ones.

Tonight I saw a spot of blood on her beak, right between her nostils. It almost looks like a welt or scratch. And she is very fidgety..though I was gone for 14 hours at work and was a bit late in feeding.

Sorry for the length of this, but the green poop bothers me, her abrupt movements and scratch aren't helping. I have books on order and read the web diligently, but every single thing that could be wrong seems to have green poop as a symptom!

I can upload any pictures of whatever anyone may want to see regarding this. I would appreciate any advice and help getting my new friend fully up to speed.

ChristyB

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[turkey]

I don't know, but it's possible that stress has caused Paratyphoid to resurface.

My birds have Paratyphoid right now, so it seems that I am advising a lot of people that their birds may have Paratyphoid. So forgive me I could very well be WRONG!

But, I have a question. Did your vet put your pigeon on Baytril after the operation?

If you really want to be sure what is causing the problem, you could have him/her tested by your vet.

Julie

[ChristyB]

Yes, Charlie was given medications after the reconstruction as follows:

Baytril 5% solution - 0.12 ml 2x day for 10 days

Ketoconazole 200 - 0.4 cc 2x day for 14 days

During the time after surgery, she was in convalescence at a friends house while I was on a business trip who raises pigeons. I'm not absolutely positive that she received a full dose the full days for either med.

I have Baytril left..should I give it to her? I'm honestly not sure I could get it down her throat without hurting her fragile leg right now. I'm still an amateur.

Could it be that she needs more calcium? Since she lost so much bone, and then had to create a whole new bone, could she be low?

She is pooping well..just green with a bit of water around the edges.

Should I take a poop in to get tested by vet. I don't want to stress her out again by another long car trip to vet so soon.

Thanks! ChristyB

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[TAWhatley]

Hi Christy,

Wow what heroic efforts you have taken to help this poor bird! Bless you!

I think having the vet have a look at the feces is a good idea. If she can identify something specific that needs treatment, it would be great .. otherwise we are all just guessing.

Perhaps the bird would enjoy a bath to help with the itchiness. Offer a shallow pan with a couple of inches of lukewarm water and see if there is any interest.

Since you have the Baytril, I would go ahead and give it to the bird. As there is some left, it would seem the full course wasn't given initially.

Unless you have already discussed it with the vet, I would ask her about the pellet lodged in the chest with regard to any possibility of lead poisoning from it. I know that my vet sometimes opts to leave a pellet in if it is in a location where the body can encapsule it and where there is no danger of it reaching the digestive system.

Additional calcium is also a good idea right now.

The wartlike growth on the beak also concerns me as this may be the start of avian pox.

Have you also carefully looked into the mouth and throat to be sure there are no cheesy looking growths (canker)?

Please keep us posted and pictures would be helpful.

Terry Whatley


[This message has been edited by TAWhatley (edited April 05, 2003).]

[Feefo]

Hi Christy,

The itching and poor feathering made me think Giardia http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/giardia.html


It is treated with Flagyl. But it could be so many things!

What are you feeding her? My pigeons tend to get green poops but that is because they have peas and mung beans in their food and also eat a lot of fresh lettuce.

I hope you resolve this latest problem.

Cynthia

[ChristyB]

All!

Thanks so much for your help with my new friend. It is entirely possible that I have 'new parent syndrome' and am just paranoid about every little thing. Hope this further info helps you help me

1) I will be taking the poop in on Monday to the vet for a complete workover. Better safe than sorry. Any advice on how much or how new the poop should be that is brought?

2) As for her itchiness, once I scratched all the pin feather stuff off of her she itched much less and she has been treated for any external parasites at the vet. She just seems to like to preen very abruptly when anyone comes near her. But when you look away she stops.

It seems she was not treated well in her youth as she doesn't appear to know how to bathe! Shallow pan with water was just something to drink from to her. Misting her as another person suggested just made her puff up and give me the stink eye.

3) As to the green poop, I did add more oyster shell to the grit yesterday. This morning at 4 a.m. before I left for work I peeked into her loft at her nighttime pile. It was mounded and firm and with a white spot on top. No more liquid that I could see. Hard to tell exact color but it looked a bit less green. Could she have just needed calcium after all that bone growth? Or been just a bit nervous and upset after the removal of the last cast?

4) The scratch on her beak. She did that last night right after I came home from work. Flew from one side of the loft to the other and then came back with a scratch. She was really over-excited at me coming home from work late.

5) As to pellet in chest. Her first round of surgery for the reconstruction was so stressful that the vet didn't want to risk putting her under again and didn't feel she should start probing that area with so much work happening on her other side. The pellet is deep in the muscle of the breast and did go all the way through from leg upwards and forwards through body. At some point, she may have it removed, but not until she is far more well and comfortable.

5) I looked in her mouth a few weeks ago and it was reddish pink and healthy according to the vet. I will look again, but she *really* hates when I do that. Her skin was free of scales of any sort as well.

I posted a picture of her at the address below. One is her with her final cast on, taken during daytime, and shows some of the pin feathers that started to overwhelm her head while she couldn't balance to scratch. The other I took last night in the dark so the color isn't quite right. The scratch is visible at the edge of her profile. It is between the nostrils and looks like the kind of scratch that a person gets where it is red, but not truly open, if you know what I mean. Her leg is out of the cast and has some atrophy from 6 weeks imobile, but is looking good!

Thanks! Christy and Charlie




http://community.webshots.com/user/christyacb

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[Marian]

Hi Christy,
Has your pigeon been treated for internal parasites with Ivomec? It consists of two treatments (oral medication), the first on day one and the second on day l7 or 20 (in that range).
Ivomec kills some common internal worms. (a fecal exam would show these) No need to go to the expense of doing a fecal, then Ivomec treatment. Just have the treatment.
It is given twice as it only kills the worms, not the eggs. So the second treatment is to kill the eggs that have just hatched.
If she is picking at herself, parasites are the first thing that comes to mind.

Poop sample size would be one fresh dropping.

She will go for the safflower seeds as they have a very high fat content and birds like this. You can offer her pigeon mix, plus fresh foods (fruits, veg).

Best,
Marian

[turkey]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are going to bring in a dropping sample to the vet for testing, don't start Charlie on Baytril yet, or any meds. Calcium is fine.

Charlie puffing up when you spray her is what pigeons do. They love to be clean. If you splash your hand around in the pan of water, you will see charlie getting upset. Charlie will be upset because s/he wants to get in that water, but may be nervous of you. My birds still do it.

Mabel is my shy bird, but when the last time I offered her a bath, she jumped in the water and came right to my hand. Surprised me. Yet Turkey trusts me the most and he will still stay back and fluff up unsure of whether he should approach the water.

Mabel's bath was long needed. As soon as she got in the water and fluffed up, the water turned white with from all the feather dust. It was a well needed bath and it made her feel better.

Julie

[Feefo]

Charlie is a beautiful bird!

We all suffer from hypochondria by proxy occasionaly, but I think that if in doubt it is better to consult a vet until you know what is "normal" for your pigeon.

Cynthia

[Wild Dove]

I agree with Cynthia...Charlie is beautiful and cute, cute, cute! And you are amazing...what a wonderful Mom Charlie has!
While the vet is looking at Charlie's poops, you may want to ask if Charlie would benefit from some acidophilus/lactobaccillus. Strong antibiotics, like those Charlie has been on, can eliminate all of the good gut bacteria as well as bad bacteria. Sometimes, the good bacteria needs to be replaced.
You can find this in pill/powder form in any pharmacy, and may be able to sprinkle it in Charlie's water, or on her food.
Please keep us updated on Charlie's progress!
Wild Dove