tumblers, or homers?

[billyhill]

Hi all! I just bought 2 more pigeons. They are supposed to be tumblers. My question is.............how to tell the difference between tumblers, and homers? Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

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~~~John W. a.k.a. billyhill~~~

[bigbird]

Tumblers usually have leg feathers ie. West of Englands-Homers on the other hand have their own particular set of visual features.
Try to find out what kind of tumblers and homers you have, then look them up in a book of pigeons. Suggest Levy's book "The Pigeon".

[lukekerttu]

homers don't look that fancy

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luke

[Vwj Tsaab]

Hi, I have two tumblers, and two regular pigeons. The regular ones have a red-orange color around their black dot in their eyes. The tumblers have the black dots in the center too, but the color that sourrounds the dot is not red-orange, it is sometimes almost wihte or sometimes it has a little orange, I mean very little orange that sourrounds its eyes. Check the eyes and see what happens.

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Vue Chang

[peter]

If your birds are truely homers and rollers then the homers will be a good deal larger than the rollers they will have eye sign (the muscle around the black part of the eye) and they have larger eggs, feet are larger and most american homers will have enflamed nose tissue. You need to check you pedigrees and if you can not even tell the difference then you should get rid of the birds (one major difference is that the rollers ROLL!)

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peter

[billyhill]

get rid of the birds? what are you talking about? even if they are mutts, i like them just the same.

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~~~John W. a.k.a. billyhill~~~

[lukekerttu]

dude just b/c there not rollers or homers does not mean get rid of them i wouldn't trade my birds for any other birds

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luke

[billyhill]

you got that right, Luke!

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~~~John W. a.k.a. billyhill~~~

[raynjudy]

Guys:

You are going to run into "attitudes" that at the least, you will not approve of, and at most, will outrage you.

Some fanciers systematically "cull" (kill) any pigeon not meeting the arbitrarily set
"standard". There are documented incidents of people returning a banded, lost racing pigeon to the owner, only to see the guy ring its neck after reading the band! Why?
because it's inferior--it didn't make it home! Odds are, you'd find a road map in the guy's glove box...

In another recent post, a new member states that he "made a meal" of a pigeon not up to standards.

Peter's comment bothers me too. And your responses to Peter are polite and appropriate. It is highly presumptuous of Peter to recommend that course of action to you, Vue. But again, be prepared to encounter "attitudes" like this. People hung up on pedigree care only about the integrity of that blood line and its standard, and disparage or even kill, those
small souls that don't fit the parameters. I,like you, strongly disapprove.

When the other member stated that he ate a pigeon not to standards, I bristled. But he didn't recommend this action to others, so I didn't reply.

The old standard of pigeon books, "The Pigeon", by Levy, is a tome of some 600 pages. The book features an extensive history of the wonderful contribution of pigeons to our society. The variety and standard of pigeon breeds is dealt with extensively, for the time. Conversely, there is a chapter on raising pigeons for food, which includes efficient killing of the birds, and even a recipe or two. I bristled at that as well. But I was highly impressed by the rest of the book.

You will find this dichotomy of thought in all live stock farmers. Is it any wonder? I mean, how else would they "survive" their trade and life style? And any one of them can shoot back at any time--Will all staunch vegetarians please raise your hands? This is usually followed by a whole lot of quiet...

Most of us have found that it's easier to have a philosophy than it is to live by one.

As for Peter and others, I would remind you that this is a "Pigeon Lovers" website and posts promoting culling and pigeon pie will be promptly deleted.

I cannot condone the idea of throw away life, but I'm proud of you all for being polite.

Besides, we have no chance of turning these guys around if we blow them away at the start!

--Ray

[billyhill]

Hey Peter, I am VERY familiar with venomous snakes, and have studied them for years. Now, with the help of great people like Ray, and Carl,and alot of other really nice people on here, I am endeavoring to learn all I can about pigeons.Your comment about if I can't even tell the difference, I should get rid of the birds, would be like me telling you that if you got bitten by a venomous snake, its too bad, you should learn to tell the difference!

[peter]

The reason for getting rid of the rollers is because it costs just as much to feed a good bird as it does a bad bird so why waste your time and money on something that will not be a top preformer. If it does happen to be a "special friend" then you could keep him but do not let him mate. In the future before you become to attached make sure that it is a top quality bird. And i sugested not getting to attached to one single bird because there is always the chance that it will get taken out by a hawk or other predator. It is a good idea as another guy was saying to get all of your birds to be calm, sit on your shoulder, preen your face, ect. but do not get so attached to a certian pigeon that if it does not meet top standards that you are not willing to cull it. If you cannot stand to cull birds then you should get into the fancy pigeons that are for show only, if you do not learn to cut your losses in preformers that you will never get any where.

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peter

[Joel]

Ok, im sure i'll get blasted for this but i must come to the defense of Peter. Peter, like myself is a relatively new member as it states by his name. Dont you think new members should be warned before they ever post their first message just what will be tolerated and what will not? I mean just because this is a pigeon lovers site, one shouldnt think fanciers who practice culling dont love their birds. I happen to know that many do. I personally dont cull birds. I know of fanciers that have practiced this after unsucessful attempts at giving them away. One old gentlemen in particular has literally given thousands of birds away over 60 years and introduced many a young child to pigeons that otherwise would not have experienced them. Never did he sell one. I must admit, until i met him i could've cared less about pigeons. Now i dont know what id do without them. I love to watch them, research them and share with others what little i know to hopefully influence other peoples perception of these wonderful birds.
Lastly, just let me say, and im not trying to suck up, that this site is a breath of fresh air. Its great to read about people enjoying pigeons despite pedigrees or backgrounds. I especially enjoy reading about the very tame ones. Anyway Peter, if your still around, "ease up on the getting rid of posts" cause im sure you have a lot to share.

Joel

[Joel]

The point being Peter, they enjoy their birds despite being half roller half crow!! Performance has nothing to do with it. Geeezz... what timing.

Joel

[raynjudy]

Quite a few years back, there was an article in Reader's Digest called, "My Darling Starling". I've never looked at Starlings the same since.

Peter speaks from the perspective of a sportsman--and that's okay, for Peter. Like I said, farmers and live stock ranchers have a different perspective, and that's understandable.

In the years Judy trained horses, she saw many a horse sold for not meeting standards.
Yet somebody else loved that same horse with all their heart.

We do not advocate culling at this site. That means exactly what you think it means.
There are no lines to read between. But that does not mean die-hard racing fanciers and their knowledge aren't welcome here!

Let me put it this way: When visiting a family that doesn't put their feet on the coffee table, don't put your feet on their coffee table!

If you're itching to discuss culling, this isn't the place. Conversely, we won't push
the adoption of a feral pigeon on traditional racing pigeon fanciers.

--Ray