Canker in Mourning Doves

[Starshooter]

I've had some problems with Canker last summer and now again this summer in the Wild Flock of Mourning Doves who visit my backyard feeders.

To make a long story short, I have quite a few die last summer. I took one deceased bird to my vet and they diagnosed aspiration as the cause of death and lots of bacteria. They gave me antibiotics last summer to add to the water. This did not help the remaining flock and many more passed. I captured one still alive and took it to the Wild Bird Center in Boise and they diagnosed Canker. They had to euthenize (sp?) the poor thing as it was too far gone to treat.

Now again I'm having Mourning doves die. I was able to catch one and took it to the Night Wild Bird Lady and the poor thing died as soon as she started to examine it. I then took this bird again to my vet to perform a nacropsy and she found lots of e-coli and determined that it had Canker.

My vet prescribed Metronidazole. We used 8 IV bags and added water to make 1 gallon to put into my bird baths. She said the normal type is too bitter and that the birds wouldn't voluntarily drink.

Today was the last day of meds that I had. My questions are: What are the early signs of canker? and what else can I do to help the ones who still remain ill? and will I see any improvement in the ones that are ill? They all seem to be in various stages of the disease.

Thanks for any information you could give me.

Sandy

[Pidgey]

I hate to say it but trying to treat wild birds while they're still under their own recognizance is almost a lost cause. One of the problems that you end up with is developing resistant strains. It has been proven that underdosing is the worst thing you can do towards building resistance in the pathogen. Doves really seem to have a bad problem with canker (Trichomoniasis) and there are some extremely virulent strains out there. I've never heard of a practical way of controlling it in the wilds like that, I'm afraid.

Pidgey

[Starshooter]

I'm self employed and in my home office most of the time. It sure is tough watching these little guys slowly starve to death. Thanks for your input

[Pidgey]

Oh, I understand that, alright. I suppose that you could build a special hoop-net with a spring or rope trigger that you could catch the little fellows with at the watering hole and then start treating them on an individual basis. That's pretty rewarding work.

Pidgey

[Pidgey]

Of course, there might be one simple thing that you could do that might help the situation--you could put fresh water in the waterer everyday with a little bit of Clorox in it. That will prevent any Trichomonads (the flagellating protozoa responsible) from being able to live in it. I'm not sure about the concentration, but it'd be the same as that used to treat water for Giardia. If you could get all the folks who keep birdbaths and other waterers in your nearby neighborhood to doing the same thing, it would help the problem. However, if you have a natural water feature like a pond or a creek that the birds like to drink at, it might not matter. But, it's a cheap enough thing to try.

Pidgey

[Starshooter]

I currently change the water each day and spray diluted bleach on the rim and in the bowl of the bath. I let this stand, then rinse before refilling. Is it safe to leave a little bit of bleach in the water. I would sure hate to hurt the birds from the burn. What would a safe blend?

[Pidgey]

Well, I went a'lookin' and found this:

http://standeyo.com/News_Files/LTAH_Water_Pure2.html

It essentially says 16 drops to the gallon of water of a chlorinated bleach with no soap or whatever with a sodium hypochlorite content of 5.25 to 6.0%

Pidgey

[AZWhitefeather]

Originally Posted by Starshooter

I currently change the water each day and spray diluted bleach on the rim and in the bowl of the bath. I let this stand, then rinse before refilling. Is it safe to leave a little bit of bleach in the water. I would sure hate to hurt the birds from the burn. What would a safe blend?

So sorry to hear of the problems you & your feathered friends are having Starshooter.

I add a bit of Apple Cider Vinegar to the ferals water a couple times a week.
I personally don't care to use bleach. I wouldn't want to drink it. The ACV works well.

I have Inca, Mourning, White winged & Ring neck doves, pigeons, sparrows, a few other varieties that hang out in our backyard daily & haven't had a problem for quite some time. I'm sure treating the water has a lot to do with it.

Cindy

[Pidgey]

Well, I read another source and it said that iodine is a better treatment against giardia than bleach is. Actually, there seems to be a bit of confict over that. The reason that I first suggested bleach was because I was talking to a park ranger at a favorite campsite and he showed me where they actually used Clorox to treat the camp water. He said it was the most economical method that they'd found and I thought he said that not everything would get Giardia.

It's funny with Trichomonads--when you get them outside the pigeon onto the slide, you have to be careful with the water that you use because you can kill the little beggars pretty easy (it's the motion that they make that helps you identify them). They can't survive in distilled water at all because it's a hypotonic solution (think that's the right word) and they tend to explode.

Anyway, a lot of homer folks (people who keep homing pigeons) use a little bit of bleach in the water. But, what may be one of the important factors here is that there are many variants of the Trichomonads and it is clinically known that infection/infestation by a non-virulent species will protect the birds (by way of creating some immunity) from the more virulent strains. Perhaps, Cindy, your local population has that as well.

Pidgey

[Pidgey]

It looks like water treatment with iodine is 5 drops per quart, by the way.

Pidgey

[Starshooter]

Thanks for the info. I'm willing to try anything at this point to help prevent spreading of the Trichomonads.

By the way, what are the first signs in a dove of this problem?

I've noticed that some of the birds have a redness at the corners of their beaks. Is that normal for some birds or is this a first sign?

[Lady Tarheel]

Hi Sandy and welcome to the forum.

We have also had a few doves that died from canker. It seems so much worse in doves than pigeons. Their mouths are almost totally blocked and it looks so bad. The problem is that by the time you can catch them they're so sick they don't recover.

We put vinegar water in our outdoor bird baths but I think clorox would be good also. I have a friend who raises show birds and he gives his own birds clorox treated water 1 x week and swears by it. He has been doing this a number of years. He uses 1 tsp. clorox to 1 gallon of water.

[cyro51]

You could also consider natural antiprotozoal products like Gem Trikanox:

http://www.everythingforpets.com/gem....413.dept.134/

Cynthia

[feralpigeon]

Gem's Trikanox is a good product and contains berberine (found in goldenseal), allicin (found in garlic) and echinacosides (found in Echinacea) all of which are effective with canker as well as other common health issues. I don't think you'd have to worry about developing resistancy per se with the procuct. Another procuct you might consider would be GSE (grapefruit seed extract) which can be purchased at a health food store. Maybe a therapeutic dosing/treatment of the natural products and then keeping up with Raw Apple Cider Vinegar on a daily basis would be helpful. The ACV also is good for their feathers as well.

So many folks put out bird baths and don't realize that they require attention, it would be difficult to know where else your birds were watering themselves, if in fact at a neighbors. At least you'd know that by treating your water, they weren't passing it to each other at your home.

fp

[pdpbison]

Yahhhh...

Creeks, running Water, should not present a problem...but standing water, puddles, bird baths and so on sure will...

Infected Birds backflush a little of the infection into the water they are drinking out of, as well as any poops getting into the water from infected Birds...

So, any context where the possible concentrations of the organisms, would seem to me to present a more probable vector for additional Birds contracting the organism...

Doves may be particularly sensitive to this anyway...

The organism can usually live in a kind of balance, as a back-ground fauna, with no problems, and then if the Bird is suffering from privation or other compromise to their nutrition or health, the organism may begin to produce symptoms, and or illness may result, as may death.

Under-doseing as Pidgey mentions is probably worse than no doseing at all if trying to treat wild groups...or captive groups of birds...as it will merely kill off the weakest varients of the organism and leave the strongest and most resistant.

Any standing Water which can be eliminated, even puddles on the ground, to get rid of those would help...


'Berimax' kills the Trichomonads, if very fogiving for dosage, and the Birds do not seem to mind the flavor...and supposedly kills even the resistant strains, but it is hard to get over here...

The Grape Fruit Seed extract, if it can be had reasonably, and used to mix a LOT of water, might be worth a try...but I'd mix it to twice the usual level, since the Birds will likely drink elsewhere as well...

Infected Doves will not show much for symptoms untill very very ill...but, one symptom they will show while still looking healthy otherwise, will be chalky 'yellow' urates in their poops...

It is especially devistating for their Babys, so be on the look out for ten or twelve day old "peeper' Doves on the ground here or there, as they will tend to be expelled from the Nest as they become ill, but way before they are critical, and they are often easy to treat and cure if one get them in time.

If you open their ( adult or youngster) Beak and look down their throat in a good light, you might see little yellowish 'small curd cottage cheese' sort of lumps...but, you might not see them too, and the infecton may be further 'down' somewhere...and probably often is anyway...

Tough deal...

It is bad here too in the Southern Mojave...for Pigeons and Doves both...

'Emtryl', used to come in packets ( Farm Feed Stores and Mail order or internet versions of them, ) for making 55 Gallons of medicated Water at a time, used for treating commercial flocks of Turkeys for 'Blackhead' which is another presentation in another Bird species of the same or a similar organism...but may be hard to get now if one wanted to try it, but then too, it was not so forgiveing for dosage, especially for youngsters or Babys...

It is just very hard to devise any method for treating Wild Birds...where captive ones of course, one may guarantee their intake of the medicine or medicine Water...


Phil
Las Vegas