Need help with this baby bird (i think its a cuckoo)

[altgirl35]

birds other than pigeons and doves take much much less by tube they have tiny crops in comparison.
generally we give 3%of their body weight so think smaller feedings more often than you would with a pigeon, start with with less and see how he does

[altgirl35]

i'm trying to find the average weight for these guys, can't find it, now i need to go feed the baby goldfinch, squirrels and clean everybody up!

[plamenh]

The study shows that Asian Koels swallow large fruits like those of Chinese fan palm (Livistona chinensis), Syzygium chumini and Arenga engleri whole. But they rapidly regurgitate the cleaned seeds, dropping them under the tree, rather than defecating them. This appears to be a common adaptation of specialist frugivores, presumably serving to reduce the weight and volume of material that must pass through the gut. On the other hand other birds peck the fruits and leave the seeds. When eating fruits like figs with small seeds, koels swallow them whole and defecate the seeds below the tree.
http://www.birdsinbackyards.net/bird/54

[Feefo]

That is very interesting, thank you for researching. But where does the separation of the flesh from the seeds take place?

The size of their gape or of the food they are able to swallow isn't a reliable indication of crop size...consider the owl, it swallows whole prey and regurgitates the indigestible materials in pellets, but it has no crop. Pigeons, on the other hand, eat small seeds but they have a large crop because it is used for storage and soaking.

I am not saying you are wrong, just explaining why I would be so much more comfortable if we had access to someone who has hands-on knowledge of this bird.

[spdevanand]

Again, thanks everyone for your help and support. The bird's condition is almost same I am continuing to keep it warm, hydrated, feeding few fruits and little bit of boiled rice. I first the Delhi contact number, they told me that they dint have any prior experience in handling such birds and again asked me to contact CUPA. I visited the PFA (People For Animal) site and contacted them. I also few photos where they have supposedly koels http://www.pfa-bangalore.org/Photos.aspx?AlbumId=35

I spoke to them and they agreed to take this bird for the treatment. I am not very sure about their support or treatment, but I am hoping it be better since they have had some experience in the past. I found them to be caring when I spoke to them over the phone. I am planning to take this bird by tomorrow morning to them and will let you all know what happens.

[altgirl35]

so no more than 5mls/ccs of food i would do a little less to be on the safe side like 3mls/ccs.
other wise just keep doing the shoving in of the food, i wouldn't do strictly fruit, make sure he gets some protein also, even though he is a primary fruit eater.
try to get a few pieces of soaked dog food or egg into him also.
has he perked up at all???

[spdevanand]

Originally Posted by altgirl35

so no more than 5mls/ccs of food i would do a little less to be on the safe side like 3mls/ccs.
other wise just keep doing the shoving in of the food, i wouldn't do strictly fruit, make sure he gets some protein also, even though he is a primary fruit eater.
try to get a few pieces of soaked dog food or egg into him also.
has he perked up at all???

altgirl35, he is still not perked up he moves around a bit more but pretty much the same. Thanks for the help. I will definitely try feeding egg yoke and some cat food that I have.

[plamenh]

That is very interesting, thank you for researching. But where does the separation of the flesh from the seeds take place?

The size of their gape or of the food they are able to swallow isn't a reliable indication of crop size...consider the owl, it swallows whole prey and regurgitates the indigestible materials in pellets, but it has no crop. Pigeons, on the other hand, eat small seeds but they have a large crop because it is used for storage and soaking.

I am not saying you are wrong, just explaining why I would be so much more comfortable if we had access to someone who has hands-on knowledge of this bird.

I know and I prefer too to rely on first hand information and professional help. Unfortunately here in SA I must rely only on myself and people from the forum. If I’m facing situation to let the bird die or try to help her, I’ll take a chance.

Here is some more info:
Mr. Emerson adds that, in cuckoo's crops he has found a yellowish substance that he can not but regard as egg, and adds, " I believe cuckoos do suck eggs as do most predatory birds." '•'
*' On skinning it (the cuckoo) I found its crop was full of a mash of eggshells. I carefully examined this mash and succeeded in separating the broken shells (held together partly by the inside skin) of at least seven eggs,...
http://www.archive.org/stream/ourcom...0japp_djvu.txt

[Feefo]

Unfortunately here in SA I must rely only on myself and people from the forum.

That is a shame. I hope that you will be able to find a compassionate vet that is willing and able to treat pigeons, they can't all have moved to the UK! (Perhaps I should explain that my vets in Norfolk, John D's vet is West Sussex and PigeonQueen's vet in London are all South African)

[plamenh]

Originally Posted by Feefo

That is a shame. I hope that you will be able to find a compassionate vet that is willing and able to treat pigeons, they can't all have moved to the UK! (Perhaps I should explain that my vets in Norfolk, John D's vet is West Sussex and PigeonQueen's vet in London are all South African)

Well at least you know more SA Vets willing to help pigeons than I do.
This is how the story goes:
5 years ago I found my first sick bird. I had no experience with pigeon diseases and my first enlightenment was to find a Vet. There are more than 10 Veterinary Clinics in the area where I live so I jumped in the car and taking sick bird with me started going around. The answer everywhere was – “We do not do birds only dogs and cats!”
It’s Ok, I thought and asked do they know someone who does. Most of them didn’t some of them gave me telephone numbers.
I went home, phoned these numbers and the moment I mentioned feral pigeon, got rejected.
After that I started looking through telephone book, Internet and pet shops. Made a list of Veterinarians, Clinics and Wildlife organizations involved in avian species. It was long list that become considerably shorter after phoning and explaining what is all about.
Then I went to the first avian Vet who agreed to see the bird, he examined bird, gave Baytril injection and told me to come next day for another injection. When after third day bird wasn’t improving, I decided to go for second opinion and so I vent to another avian Vet. They were very polite, examined bird, told me that this is canker, that Baytril doesn’t work and because there is no cure bird must be euthanized. Pigeon was in such a petty condition at that time, that I agreed. In both places I paid generous bills, but what bothered me that bird died. Second and third pigeons had similar fate but with the end of their lives ended my list of the professionals in the avian field.
I did research on the Internet on pigeon diseases treatment and medications compared with the information I received from Vets about my sick birds and found that something was amiss. Not one of them was doing any lab analysis, fecal or blood microscope checks. They were just giving Baytril, Cortizone, Cycline injections and waiting for results. I was paying, wasting time and feeling grateful that they agreed to treat my birds while my birds were dying in my hands and I was helpless.

Then I started learning and doing things myself…

Believe me I don't do what I do just because I like to play doctor. I would prefer to have that magical place with knowledgeable people where you bring sick bird on the entrance and receive happy and healthy bird on the exit. I’m prepared to pay the bill.

[Feefo]

I think that we all have had the "canker experience", it is particularly galling to know, without doubt, that you have handed a strong and healthy pigeon over to be killed when just a little care would have saved it.

[John_D]

I can certainly relate to what you say there, Plamenh. I have had the runaround with canker. When I found sick birds on my balcony, years ago, I took them to a wildlife hospital where they do, I know, treat pigeons, as well as any other bird or animal regardless of 'status'. But, checking back, at least three of them were put down because they had 'very bad canker'. I had no idea what that was then, no internet and no reference points - and one assumes, too often, that 'they must know best'.

Today, those birds would have a fighting chance without vets and wildlife hospitals, as would any pigeon with any of the more common problems we encounter (and even some not so common). Of course, we do have access to vets now who are willing to do what they can, vets who are also willing to admit when something is outside their experience and to learn as they go, just as we have to. I do believe, though, it's people like you and Feefo and all the others on the forums who do the research, ask the questions and get stuck into the practicalities who really make the difference for a needy bird.

Let's just hope for a turning point for Dev's Koel. I certainly have to admit that anything non-pigeon would be pretty nerve-wracking for me, and without a forum to go to I would be absolutely at a loss in that situation!

John

[altgirl35]

you did the right thing, and after you told me that the bird had no change, i was pretty worried, and frankly by the condition of the bird when found i was surprised he had made it through the night.
all you can do with spinal cord injuries is wait and see, steroids can help. then the question is is it humane to treat him, if they are in a lot of pain even after they get pain meds it's not.
i'm saying a prayer for the sweet bird, and thank you so much for lovingly caring for him