Trich, Abscess, Pox and/or Something Else ??

[TAWhatley]

Thank you all for the well wishes. Dad is better today, hubby (Gene) is doing fine .. I'm just tired of having two human needy in the household plus all the birds and critters.

Give me a bird or animal any time .. somebody else take the humans .. they are typically pitiful patients.

The labs still aren't back on the Egyptian, but Anita and I have been in touch each day. The bird is =not= well and is being tube and hand fed by Anita. I suspect this will not end well for the bird. We're doing the best we can right now. I'll keep you posted.

Terry

[Camrron]

Hi there Terry,

My bird, who I have been tube feeding for the last 5 or 6 days looks like she might finally be turning the corner. I still don't know what was wrong with her though. We are in the same boat in a way except that you can see the problem with yours much more clearly. Whatever happens though I want you to know I support you and your efforts to help this injured animal. Lots of blessings for you, your bird and your family.

Cameron

[TAWhatley]

The lab tests showed that this is avian pox and is manifesting in both
the cutaneous (dry) form on the underside of the lower bill as well as the
diphtheritic (wet) form inside the mouth.

The vet feels the prognosis is poor and has recommended euthanasia
for the bird. This decision will be made by Anita who is and has been
caring for the bird. If asked for my opinion, I will encourage her to keep
going with the bird. She has been successful in tube feeding the bird,
and the bird is showing no signs of stress or pain at this point, so I
would rather give the bird a chance than not.

Terry

[Pidgey]

Vets sometimes have a difficult time imagining how much trouble we will sometimes go through to pull a bird through. Not all of them, but quite a few.

Pidgey

[Reti]

Originally Posted by TAWhatley

She has been successful in tube feeding the bird,
and the bird is showing no signs of stress or pain at this point, so I
would rather give the bird a chance than not.

Terry

That's what I would do too.
I hope this little guy makes it.

Reti

[TAWhatley]

Anita is definitely going to keep going with the Egyptian .. and .. even more good news ..

Anita called a bit ago to let me know that my suggestion of
"duck soup" had turned the tide and that the bird is willingly swarfing
it up on her own. Last night I had Anita soak some dry kibble, shred
some romaine and spinach, and put all that in a good sized bowl of
water in the hope that the bird would be enticed to eat on her own ..
it seems to have worked well

What we really have to hope for now is that the wet pox is only where we see it in the mouth and that it hasn't already attacked any internal organs.

Terry

[pdpbison]

Hi Terry,


If I may draw on my own breif experiences with my single Duck and her feeding time...

Have Anita go to the nearest 'Trader Joes' and get some of their house brand Canned Corn ( every Ducks favorite brand you know and inexpensive too) ...also get their lots of their various several kinds of small tender fresh Sprouts...'spicey' kinds of Sprouts are fine too ( ie Raddish or whatever that are kinds tangy...) But the little 'Leafy' ones are best, as opposed to the usual matted-skinney 'sprouts' one sees everywhere.

Also get some Misu...and some Tufu...

Baby Lima Beans ( Canned or Frozen...)...Baby LeSeur 'Peas'...regular Frozen peas for that matter are fine too of course...

Carrot Tops, Beet Tops, Cilantro, Dandy Lion Greens, Parsely, Italian Parsely, and so on, and for the large leaved of these, or the stemmy of these, cut 'em up with Scizzors into Bill-Sized bites...

Also various plain old dried Grains and Seeds such as Oat Groats, Barley, Wheat and so on...

A nice Bowl od small clean Gravel for her Gizzard in a saperate Bowl with an inch and a half of Water.

Flat Bottom 'Bowls' of course are best...Maybe more a Casserole Dish then or something...

Also dried Sea Weeds...shred or cut them into small bits for-the-Bill...

Fresh Fruit in Season, or, Frozen bulk ones, especially Blueberries, dark Cherries, Blackberries, these one thaws of course first, and leave whole or cut into bits...Dried Goji Berries too of course.

Skip the Mexican Strawberries unless one wishes to be treating e-coli or hepatitus or both.


Also Canned "Alaska" Salmon or high-quality Sock-Eye Salmon or fresh Salmon ( if one feels confident is is NOT 'farm raised' and NOT full of Mercury from the Alasakn Wilds and so on) ...Sardines ( canned, plain type) or other good Fish kinds of things, and of course raw and fresh caught is best, but...Canned is easy and convenient and quite good...made to be in small Bill-sized bits of course...

Good fish guts or scraps from one's favorite Sushi-Bar...or other...

Shredded Wheat or other hi-class old time plain Cereals also in moderation, but one might have to try several to find the ones she will rave about.


Anyhooooo...these variously together in various combinations to keep it interesting, and in an inch and a half or so of clean fresh Water in a stable Bowl or old time flat bottom Refridgerator or Ice Box bin...and I am confident the Duck will be delighted and will have that look of saying "Hey! Are we gunna have some more chow here or what?" every few hours or so. And or be quite vocal about it too...



Mine always was, and She really loved the chow...and liked to 'narrate' while she ate too, with all kinds of murmers and quacks of delight...and we did the chow-time at least five times-a-day...maybe six.

Makes for nice poops too...easy to pick up, no 'runs'...not smelly...not messy.

'Ideal'...


Love,

Phil
Las Vegas

[TAWhatley]

Thanks for the suggestions for varying the duck soup recipe, Phil! Anita is a vegan and has lots of interesting things to eat in her household when it comes to possible duck food.

As to your Goji Berries .. YIKES! I was at Mother's Market the other day and happened to see a bag of them there .. $14.99 .. given the price, they better be good!

Terry

[pdpbison]

Hi Terry,



Oh well, maybe save the Goji-Berries for the Infants or convelescent 'small' Birds...that Duck could eat that whole bag in one sitting no problem, I am sure!


Anyway, even though your pals are Vegan, please have them consider to get the Sushi-Bar scraps and other good quality ( no bones unless Sardines or some Salmon, and then the spines definitely if not the ribs, of ) Fish-things for her.


Too, the fresh-frozen Blueberries, dark Cherries, and Blackberries are easy on the pocket book and very very good for them...plenty of nice antioxidants and other good things.

The small clean Gravel in it's own Bowl with an inch and a half or so of Water, also.

I used to just scoop up handfulls, sorted out the small ones I wanted to give her ( Pinto Bean sized thereabouts) , from the gravel here in the parking lot. Washed (agitated it real well in a container) in hot soapy Water...then let it sit in Bleach Water for a day, then rinsed the daylights out of it, and let her go to town.

She loved her 'gravel'...

I thought to avoid the Brussel sprouts, Broccolii and so on as being maybe unsuited for a Duck's digestion and improbable for their natural forragings, so...I stayed with Greens like what they might browse if in the wilds.

I did used to shred Carrots for her...

And 'thin' sliced Pippin Apples she liked too...

Bartlet Pears likewise...


When I did buy her some expensive official Purina 'Duck and Goose Chow' she went up to it all happy and quacking and murmering and so on, paused, slowly put her Bill into it, investigated it with some Bill action sluicing for a second, then stood back looking at me las if to say, "What is THIS stuff? Yeeeeeesh..." And so...we did not bother with any more of that...(but I could sneak 'some' into her other mixes and she'd not protest...) I fed the rest of that 100 pound sack to the Wild Birds and they seemed allright with it...

They have amazeingly sensitive Bills...!

And tastes..!

Truely!


Phil
Las Vegas

[Pidgey]

Is there any new word on this one, Terry?

Pidgey

[pdpbison]

I was just wondering the same thing...


Now, the Pox can be treated topically/locally as well as, being treated concurrently with systemics, yes?

Can you provide a fast overview/refresher for us Pidgey?



Phil
Las Vegas

[Pidgey]

Phil,

Crap, no! I've never even seen pox so I guess it's not too much of a problem around here. It's viral so you don't treat it although others on here have mentioned some kind of medication to dry up the external lesions with but that's going to have a limited effect. As to internal diptheritic lesions (which are usually discovered in organs in necropsy), there's not a lot to be done.

Speculating, if you were going to try, you'd need to use an antiviral drug like is listed here:

http://www-micro.msb.le.ac.uk/3035/Antivirals.html

but I don't see that there is one listed for the Poxviridae family, much less for Avipoxvirus genus. In humans, you can get a gamma G shot if you're going into harm's way with hepatitis (and you don't have time for the vaccines) but there's no such thing for pigeons either (now, THAT would be a wonderful rehabbing tool!). I think you're just out of luck except for warmth, good chow, clean water, supplements and piped-in loft sounds.

But you'd do better to talk with Terry about that because she's had several.

Pidgey

[TAWhatley]

Hi Phil and Pidgey,

Anita has "livened" up the duck soup and treats with some of the things Phil had suggested. The Egyptian Goose has been self feeding since we started the duck soup. The dry lesions are slowly (very slowly) starting to drop off in tiny pieces. The inside of the mouth is still swollen, but that is also starting to show improvement. And .. the horrible smell is gone. Anita and this bird still have a very long way to go, but I'm cautiously optimistic at this point.

There is no medicine that is effective for avian pox that I know of. Good supportive care .. warmth, fluids, food, swabbing of external lesions with diluted Betadine or Tea Tree Oil or another drying agent is about all you can do. The pox will run its course, and usually the bird makes a full recovery .. dry pox that is .. the wet pox is a whole nother story. Sometimes a course of antibiotics will be given during treatment to try and assure that some opportunistic bacterial infection doesn't take hold.

Terry

[pdpbison]

Hi Terry,


Well, it sounds then to be looking pretty good all things considered!

Glad to hear they are eating well and the Pox is maybe receeding in it's symptom-making.

Viruses...

Yahhhh, I guess then just the best nutrition and support comforts one can do to aid their own immune system to negotiate the matter...


I have m-a-y-b-e seen one case of Pox but I am not sure. It was the other day, a feral Pigeon who had weepy Eyes and smeared shoulders from rubbing them...his mouth sides were 'puffy' also and the tiny Feathers there were puffed out.

I was not able to catch him and I have not seen him since. He looked decidedly unhappy, but was wary and a very strong flier.

Something like whatever he has, whatever it was or is, would maybe be bad news for others drinking from the same common Water Bowls as him...


Phil
Las Vegas

[TAWhatley]

Hi All,

Anita brought the Egyptian down this morning so I could have a look at things. Anita was concerned that the inside of the mouth was getting worse. I thought there was actually quite a bit of improvement over where we started: http://www.rims.net/2006Feb18

Terry