Wet orphan crow can't fly- will he be ok?

[tms1950]

Hi Bella- I`m a federally-licensed wild songbird rehabber in Michigan. This young crow is WAY too young to be on his own.Something has happened to his family or he`s been abandoned because he doesn`t fly well.The reason he looks like he does and doesn`t fly well is probably because of nutritional deficiencies & also looks like a feather mite infestation. Young crows typically live with their families the first two years of their life,helping with the next year`s babies. He is at great risk of being caught and eaten by predators,such as cats,dogs and especially hawks. Next time he is grounded in the rain,PLEASE capture him and get him to the rehabilitator where he can be raised with another crow.She will know how to keep him from imprinting- I have raised a number of them. As it is now,what he is learning(if he survives predator attacks) is that humans are ok to go to for food. This is another form of imprinting that will get him killed by a human.
Please,Bella,have the other person or yourself rescue this helpless baby and get him to the rehabber.
Teresa Smelser
For The Birds Wildlife Rehab
Michigan

[Maggie-NC]

Bella, I just don't know what more it will take to ask you to catch this baby and get it to the rehabber. Have you ever thought that the parents left him in your neighborhood for help?

[Jay3]

You could save his life, or cause his demise. I really would listen to the advice of a federally licensed rehabber. Wouldn't it be much more harmful if he gets killed by a hawk or something? And that is only a matter of time. She's also right you know, about the fact that he is being imprinted by your feeding him anyway. The poor little thing needs help, and you are in a position to help him. PLEASE, do the right thing by him, and get him to the rehabber. I don't understand why you think that he is going to be alright and learn anything on his own, with no one there to teach him. If they stay with their parents for a couple of years, and are constantly learning from them, then who do you think is going to help him to learn anything about survival? He isn't going to figure it out on his own. By leaving him to his own devices, you are causing him harm. I know that is not your intention, but none the less, that is what you are doing. No baby birds learn on their own. They just don't survive. But I'm sure a hungry hawk will appreciate a young bird like that being on his own with no one to guide or teach him. Think about it.

[Bella_F]

The experts in Australian Crow rehabilitation say that I'm doing the right thing. You guys probably mean well, but you've shown time and again that you know very little about our country, our birds, or even that there is a climate difference.

I'll go with the Australian experts' advice. But thanks for you concern. I'll know next time not to ask about non-Australian birds on this forum, as the ignorance here is profound .

[pigeonmama]

But thanks for you concern. I'll know next time not to ask about non-Australian birds on this forum, as the ignorance here is profound .

Bella,
I'm sorry for you and that poor little crow. Sorry that you can't appreciate the good info and intentions of everyone who tried to help you in here. Sorry that the little crow won't receive the assistance he truly needs to survive and thrive.
Daryl

[Margarret]

Originally Posted by Bella_F

The experts in Australian Crow rehabilitation say that I'm doing the right thing. You guys probably mean well, but you've shown time and again that you know very little about our country, our birds, or even that there is a climate difference.

I'll go with the Australian experts' advice. But thanks for you concern. I'll know next time not to ask about non-Australian birds on this forum, as the ignorance here is profound .

Bella,

I'm glad that you have Australian experts to consult. I, for one, was not aware when I first responded to your original post, that you are in Australia. That may have been the case for others as well, as you did not specify where you lived until later in this thread.

I do think it unfair of you to characterize people as having 'profound ignorance' about another country's birds if they do not live in that country. Yes we do know that there is a climate difference between the northern and southern hemisphere. We probably know as much about Australia as you do of other countries. We have a number of Australian members.

I know that you want to care for this little bird and I commend you for it. I think people here gave you their best knowledge based on the information you provided. I'm not sure what you wanted from this list, as you already have experts to guide you who are familiar with the birds of that locale and whose expertise you value. But apparently you wanted something and are disappointed with the answers you received. I do know that the people who responded are genuinely concerned with helping you and that they did their best to do just that. I hope the crow continues to thrive and that he is safe until he is able to fly and provide for himself. If there is anything further that you would like from this forum, I know that people will try to answer your questions. But the answers will be based on their own experience and knowledge. You said "a little crow" when you wrote initially. How were any of us to know that it was a different crow than the ones we have had experience with. You must go with the information that you think best when you get answers. It is not fair to throw verbal stones at those who tried to help when you did not provide the specifics.


Margaret

[Bella_F]

I was just upset, Margarret. And I apologize for my outburst. I was being attacked , which hurts, and the attacks were based on assumptions that were really far fetched from my point of view....like accusing me of leaving it out in the winter to freeze (when its summer here); someone accused me of taming it like a pet (when this whole approach is based on extreme sensitivity to its wildness and keeping it wild); others accused me of failing to help cure its `signs of disease' (which is just the normal colouring of Torressian crows who have white under feathers). I appreciated all the advice, but most of it I had to filter out because it didn't relate to the situation. So people blew a fuse at me, because I wasn't doing what they wanted...

What I was hoping for from this group was to learn how long to expect a soaked bird to become dry again, so I could make an assessment of its danger.

To answer my own question, it took about 30 minutes after the rain stopped. In my opinion, it had to learn this lesson for its future survival, but it was really scarey seeing him go through it.

[LokotaLoft]

People cant always be right all the time and I hate to see people goto war over what they feel they must get across in times like this as for an example when I was looking thru info on this bird of yours I came across this bird of the week site where they try to determine what a species of bird this is and I find this one quite funny as they are calling this bird a piebald leucistic Crow when you can obviously see that its a Torressian crow that somehow got into some yellow paint ..so live ,learn and show love and respect for one another ,we all do what we can as best as we know how in times of need . http://blogs.crikey.com.au/northern/...eucistic-crow/

[rook]

I'm sorry Bella_F that you have felt attacked. This wasn't my intention. However, I think your assumption is wrong, I'm sorry, but we do know what a soft release is. To show you what my understanding (and practice) is, I found you a good definition I have discovered on the Wildlife International website, which I like you to read:

"Soft release describes a gradual return to the wild whereby an animal receives support, shelter and food until it is entirely able to fend for itself. Often, a soft release takes place from a release cage or aviary on-site. The animal has spent time in the outdoor enclosure and is familiar with the sights, sounds, smells, etc. of the area and is aware of the activity of other wildlife in the area. It can return to the enclosure for food or shelter when necessary, and food and water is left outside the enclosure as well. Soft release also describes transport of the enclosure to a specific habitat and subsequent release off-site. Again, this allows the animal opportunity to become familiar with its new home."

"Hard release describes a release directly to the wild without further support or feeding. Hard release is often employed when an animal that came into care as an independent adult is returned to its home territory. Hard release is sometimes necessary when a captive-raised young animal requires a particular habitat or, in the case of birds, introduction to a flock of conspecifics. It is especially important that the animal is completely able to function independently if it is to be hard-released."

And finally here some very (!) general remarks from the same website regarding the health of a bird prior to release (NB: not everything applies to a crow, and by the way, it is not about the white down feathers of your bird):

"The bird should be free of disease and/or parasites. Its weight should be the same as the average for wild conspecifics of similar age. If the bird had an injury, it should be fully healed. If the bird has a permanent handicap (e.g. poor sight in one eye, poor grip in one foot), it must demonstrate that it can compensate. It is crucial to know the bird's method of foraging. A bird of prey must have the ability to grasp and kill prey with its feet. A bird of prey or an aerial insectivore must have 100% normal flight if it is to catch adequate food. A bird must have a strong, normal bill. A bird must be able to perch. A bird with a splayed leg cannot keep the limb warm in inclement weather and may encounter problems with frostbite. A water bird that needs a long 'runway' for take off (e.g. loon) must have two healthy legs (and feet). It is necessary that the feathers of water birds be waterproof. Do not release a bird with missing feathers or feathers that are hunger striped or demonstrate 'white feather syndrome'. These feathers will fray and break, leaving the bird grounded and unable to shelter, feed or avoid predators. Birds with damaged feathers or missing feathers should be held until their feathering is normal. The bird must sustain flight without tiring, panting, trembling, etc. If the bird is an aerial insectivore, it must demonstrate the ability to catch prey in flight. If the bird is a leaf-gleaning insectivore or a hawking insectivore (flies from a branch to catch prey), it must demonstrate the ability to catch insects."

Perhaps you can now understand our concerns, which were based on the information given to us by you. I'm very glad for you that you have found local help and advice, and I wish you and your bird all the best!

Stephan

[Jay3]

Originally Posted by Bella_F

This morning I did my usual walk to find the little crow, to give him some food. He's usually in the park or somewhere near by, and I find him by following his cries.

We had some really heavy rain last night and this morning, and when I went looking for him it was still raining. I found him a little off course, crying loudly under a tree in a person's yard about a block away. He was *really* crying and obviously distressed.


Well, it seems to me that if you can find him by his loud cries, so can every predator around. So if your experts think that leaving him in this situation is best for the bird, then I would seriously have to reconsider where the ignorance is coming from


Its stopped raining now; do you think he'll dry off enough to fly again soon? He's trying to get up to the top of a bin, which would allow him to get onto the lower branches of a big tree. He'll be right if can make it to those branches, but when I left him he couldn't even flutter to the top of the bin.

Yep, sure sounds like the best thing for this little guy. Imagine the terror of being alone and unprotected that he must be feeling. I'm sure this is probably the best thing for him.


Any ideas? Of course I've thought about catching him, but theres no cats or dogs around and he's not in immediate danger, he just needs to dry off. I don't know long that will take though...

Well, I sure am glad that it didn't rain for a week straight. Otherwise, he would have been grounded long enough to grow roots.
Tell me then, if your experts are so knowledgeable, then why did you bother coming in with your questions. Why not just go straight to the experts over there? Oh, and just a thought..................how can one ever be sure that there are no dogs or cats around that you don't know about. Must be wonderful that there are no ferral cats around there. We have many here. And hawks..........................of course you don't have those either. Wow, I wanna move there. Thanks for sharing.

[rook]

????

I wish that this poor young crow will survive its odyssey and can live a normal crow life.

Stephan.

[Charis]

Bella...I'm so sorry this thread has taken a wrong turn with hurt feelings.
Many of our members here have vast experience with other birds besides Pigeons. Many of us are rehabbers, myself included. I do have quite a bit of experience with Crows and I adore them. All we want to do is help that poor little baby, so far away that you have been chronicling for us.
A bird in need ,is a bird in need no mater what country it lives in and our personal radars have been going crazy over this little baby. Your radar is coing crazy too or you wouldn't be so worried.
I sure wish your local experts would...at the least...come and have a look.
My best to you and the baby Crow.

[Bella_F]

I appreciate the support I've received here, but I can see that we have a fundamental disagreement regarding my decision to follow the advice of various Australian crow experts and rehabbers that I've sought and received.

It seems that most forum members here think I am wrong to follow the advice of these experts.

Since we can't seem to get past this fundermental disagreement, I think it would be best if l try to find some help elsewhere. I truly don't need a bunch of people pressuring me and attacking me every step of the way; I'm scared & stressed enough about the situation.

[spirit wings]

Originally Posted by Bella_F

I appreciate the support I've received here, but I can see that we have a fundamental disagreement regarding my decision to follow the advice of various Australian crow experts and rehabbers that I've sought and received.

It seems that most forum members here think I am wrong to follow the advice of these experts.

Since we can't seem to get past this fundermental disagreement, I think it would be best if l try to find some help elsewhere. I truly don't need a bunch of people pressuring me and attacking me every step of the way; I'm scared & stressed enough about the situation.

you and everyone is on the side of the crow, use your best judgement and take the caring opinions in consideration. no need to get stressed. you sound like a strong person, so it should take more than someones opinions to ruffle your feathers....good luck with the crow baby.

[Charis]

Bella...are you afraid to actually pick up the Crow? That would be scary to many people because they would be afraid of the beak. Some people are afraid of touching anything with feathers. I had a dear friend that has passed on...she loved birds dearly but she was terrible afraid of the feathers.