Shorty's 4 Bird Micro Kit Box

[shorty2]

I bought a new water drinker from the feed store for about $4. The problem with it, the drinking part extends beyond the width of the reservoir bottle, if I put it in there free standing, they would be able to poop into the side of the drinking tray and contaminate the water.

So on the lower side of the new flat perch board, I built a small box to contain the new drinker. The drinker box is tight so they can't climb in with it, and it has a lip in the front so that if water is spilled inside the holder, it won't drip into the loft (and down into the poop catch pan). Instead the water will head to the back of the holder and there is a small drain hole for the water to run out the back.

The new drinker can last for 48 hours and still have some water left in it. But I rinse it out and change it daily anyway. When I have more birds in there, I expect that it will be the right amount of water for 24 hours.


new water 1.jpg

new water 2.jpg

new water 3.jpg

[spirit wings]

a gallon milk jug washed out and a hole cut in the side in the middle, makes for great water fount I use 8 at a time and change them out after a few weeks in the summer (we drink allot of milk).. droppings can't get in and when you need a new one..make a new one. free and easy.

[Jay3]

I like your holder. I use those waterers too and like them. I do change the water a couple of times a day. I like them also because if you are adding probiotics or something to the water, they actually get it. When they are watered with something where they drink from the top of the water, and the additive somewhat settles on the bottom, then they aren't really getting it. That's a good idea.

[shorty2]

Originally Posted by spirit wings

a gallon milk jug washed out and a hole cut in the side in the middle, makes for great water fount I use 8 at a time and change them out after a few weeks in the summer (we drink allot of milk).. droppings can't get in and when you need a new one..make a new one. free and easy.

Thanks for the tip about the milk jug. In hindsight, I can see the 2 main problems of the plastic jar I was using: 1 – it has a flat top. 2 – the bottom of it tapers in and the diameter isn’t that big to begin with so it has limited water storage. I can see with a milk jug’s wide square base and pointy top that it would probably be a much better drinker and more stable standing by itself. If I have to leave the birds for a couple days and need an extra drinker, I can see using the milk jug as an auxiliary water source.

Originally Posted by Jay3

I like your holder. I use those waterers too and like them. I do change the water a couple of times a day. I like them also because if you are adding probiotics or something to the water, they actually get it. When they are watered with something where they drink from the top of the water, and the additive somewhat settles on the bottom, then they aren't really getting it. That's a good idea.

So at the early stages of this hobby that I am in, I guess I should look more to the amateur-biotics. Seriously though, I am kind of worried that I am not giving them a balanced diet with all the nutrition they would normally eat in the wild. The seed blend I am using has:

Milo
Millet (red and white)
Black Sunflower
Popcorn
Regular reclaim corn
Soy Oil

They get fed from a chick feeder once a day after they trap in, the feeder has plenty more than they can eat, and I leave it in there for a half hour.

To supplement that, when I make dinner for my family, I'll chop up various stuff and toss it into a feed cup for them. So far I have been giving them:

Carrots
Spinach (raw)
Iceberg Lettuce
Broccoli
Cucumber Skin

The feed cup could probably hold 3 ounces of water, and I'll fill it up with the above. That cup is left in the loft with them after their dinner seed and the next morning when I head out to scrap the poo, the dish is empty so they are probably eating it at night or early in the morning.

And finally, they each get about 6 to 10 Valencia Peanuts (Spanish Peanuts) a day as treats when I try to train them.

I have no idea if this is the proper diet, I haven't found a really good definitive resource to explain what nutrition they need, and the book from the library I got just gave general suggestions and said during WW2 that pigeons survived on only beans so anything extra I give them will be better and OK.

But now that they are out every day and scavenge around in my yard and eat various stuff just like the wild birds that frequent my yard, I hope that if I am not providing the right foods, that they can make up for it when they are out.

[Jay3]

You could add split peas and lentils from the grocery store to the diet. More protein and they like them. Brown rice can also be added and mung beans from an Asian market. And a small amount of safflower seed which they love.

[shorty2]

Originally Posted by Jay3

You could add split peas and lentils from the grocery store to the diet. More protein and they like them. Brown rice can also be added and mung beans from an Asian market. And a small amount of safflower seed which they love.

Thanks for the tips on the extra foods!

Any chance do you know of a link to any scientific studies about optimum diets for pigeons? I know everyone has their own favorites and opinions, what I am hunting for is actual studies that were conducted and what kind of results they came up with.

[Jay3]

There are many mixes out there, and lots depends on what you are doing with your birds, racing, breeding, etc. Google pigeon diets and decide what you think. Here is just one example.
http://www.birdhealth.com.au/bird/pi...e-feeding.html

[Print Tippler]

Thank you for the kind words. You should buy a good pigeon mix. It shouldnt go bad out here. Go easy on that magpie. Hope things go well for you.

Originally Posted by shorty2

I hear ya guys, and man it makes me nervous to fly them. Everyone I have read and contacted that flies their birds has conveyed that they experience losses for various reasons. Fly offs (or get lost) on their first flight, cats, dogs, birds of prey, getting lost, running into wires etc etc.

Most seem to have a strategy of keeping a larger number of birds and/or keeping some prisoners and breeding them to make up for the losses. I know I am doing something odd, but for my situation, I really only want to keep a few birds and have them all be flying atleast around the loft.

Lucky for me I am friends with Print Tippler and AZCorbin. They strongly urged me to have a minimum of 7 birds and said that was a good minimum number to be self sustaining, but for the situation I am in, I really only want to keep only 4 birds (I do have room and perches for 6 in my loft). They set me up with these two birds to start and I am going to try and breed them. Hoping to end up with a magpie that has some homing ability.

They also offered support that if my flock gets wiped out, they would help me find new ones. They are in contact with many local fanciers and are kind of like a hub of the pigeon hobby here. Really great guys, lots of great advice, they respond quickly, open minded and understand that one size does not fit all. No wonder they are friends with so many other fanciers locally here. Knowing them is almost like belonging to a pigeon club.

And of course I vowed to them that if they or anyone they knew needed birds from me, when I get mine breeding that I would be glad to supply them also. From what I understand, the pigeons breed continuously and it is a matter of controlling the reproduction with the fake eggs and other techniques to prevent overpopulation.

And you gotta wonder how many people are out there that also are not interested in keeping larger numbers of pigeons, but they would be interested in keeping like 4 to 6. If we banded together to help each other, we could overcome the loss problems of having small flocks.

[shorty2]

Thanks for the link. Hey, in that article it mentions that the pigeons can survive just fine on only seed and grit. Great to see that again in another article that looks legit, so incase the supplements I give my birds aren’t being effective, atleast they will continue to survive.

I forgot to mention that I have a cup that I leave in there all the time with standard pigeon grit from the feed store, plus oyster shell and some DE powder as a de-wormer. To hold the cup, I mounted an aluminum bar on the back wall. The bar works well, it is high enough they won’t step in the cup, and since against the wall they don’t stand over top of it and poop in the cup.


grit bowl.jpg

[AZCorbin]

Very nice work you have going Shorty!
It is nice to see someone dive into pigeons and actually care to do things the best they can.
Not everyone holds the same attitude.

[NZ Pigeon]

Originally Posted by AZCorbin

Very nice work you have going Shorty!
It is nice to see someone dive into pigeons and actually care to do things the best they can.
Not everyone holds the same attitude.

second that - good work! It took me about a year and a few sick pigeons to realise the care and attention the need to truly thrive. Seems your onto it from the beginning!!!

[shorty2]

Originally Posted by AZCorbin

Very nice work you have going Shorty!
It is nice to see someone dive into pigeons and actually care to do things the best they can.
Not everyone holds the same attitude.

Originally Posted by NZ Pigeon

second that - good work! It took me about a year and a few sick pigeons to realise the care and attention the need to truly thrive. Seems your onto it from the beginning!!!

Thanks a bunch guys!!
I really appreciate all the great advice you guys are giving me, really helps a bunch!!


By the way, I forgot to post up a picture of the feeder I am using. I started with one of those heavy plastic cups but they kept stepping in it, pooping in it and knocking it over. When it wasn’t being knocked over, the way they ate from it, lots of seed ended up in the poop tray below. Also since it was a simple open top container, as they would eat they would peck at each other and shove each other to be king of the bowl.

I got this chick feeder from the feed store and it works a lot better!! Retains the seed better as they eat, does good at keeping them from pecking at each other when eating. Since it is round, it is very stable too. They were walking over top of it and I made the little cap thing with the triangle on top and that sorta works most of the time. Sometimes they knock it off, but for the most part it keeps them from standing on top of the feeder.


chick feeder 1.jpg

chick feeder 2.jpg

[spirit wings]

I tried those chick feeders and decided my birds did not like it nor did I, the reason was because they can't see their feed..which I think pigeons like...they can see a bit of it..but while pecking it would be hard to see the feed..so I bought one I really like it is a plexiglass sided feeder..here is one in the link third picture down, prices on the right side with different sizes.. you would only need the one footer.

http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-loft-scoops.html

[shorty2]

A few posts ago I mentioned the first flight out of the yard by Maggie, it was an accident and till today, that was the only time either one of my birds left the yard. They get out of the loft every day, but pretty much what happens (to my wife's amusement) is I carry Maggie, my daughter carries Fluff and we walk them about 30 feet away from the loft to a spot of grass where we have some chairs setup.

The birds will stand on our hands for about 5 minutes and then hop down to peck at the grass. A couple days ago they found a few airsoft pellets. When the first one was discovered by Maggie, I got up and tried to grab it from her mouth, but she saw me coming and she quickly swallowed it. I was scanning the ground trying to find others and remove them before any more could be swallowed, and behind me Maggie proceeded to find 2 more pellets and swallowed them too. I am glad to report those pellets head out the other end of my birds, I found them in the poop tray of the loft. (whew !!)

So anyway, back to the flying. Since we only have these two to start with, I am very satisfied with them just walking around the yard and not flying anywhere. Eventually when they have babies, I do plan on flying the babies from distances away from the loft, but for these two I would be perfectly content if they just sat around the yard, fat and happy.

Today when we pulled them out of the loft, Maggie flew up to the top of the shade and then embracing her inner gutter falcon, she decided to fly a lap around the fence line at about 25 feet off the ground.

It was beautiful, she swooped her wings just like a real pigeon, had it in high gear and banked around like nascar on an oval track. Well, going clockwise, so that would be backwards nascar. Came back to the shade and landed like a pro. Just the one lap, she was panting with her mouth open as if she ran a marathon, but hey, it was a great first (intentional) real flight and we gotta start somewhere.

Soon after when we had the birds over in the grass area, Fluff was hopping about 5 feet and did some hover flying to get there. Upon landing, she came in a little too fast and as her feet hit the ground she continued forward and face planted into the grass. Whoops... hope the local feral pigeons didn't see that...

[shorty2]

Originally Posted by spirit wings

I tried those chick feeders and decided my birds did not like it nor did I, the reason was because they can't see their feed..which I think pigeons like...they can see a bit of it..but while pecking it would be hard to see the feed..so I bought one I really like it is a plexiglass sided feeder..here is one in the link third picture down, prices on the right side with different sizes.. you would only need the one footer.

Is there a chance you could post a picture of your feeder in action? I sure would like to see it, especially with birds feeding from it.

So I saw your message on my way out tonight to let the birds out and didn't get the part where you said "..because they can't see their feed..." and I was thinking, huh? I can clearly see the feed in the chick feeder, its right there. There is an open hole, they can see it and eat it.

So watching them eat the grass in the yard I had that in the back of my head "... can't see their feed.." Hmmm..... what am I missing... Hmmm....

So when it was time to put the feeder in for dinner, I stood there and watched them eat, and there it was !!! When they dip their head into the hole, they close their eyes because the hole is kinda small and just a little bit bigger than their head. AH HA! And then, when I came back and looked at the last picture I posted, there it is, photographic proof, you can clearly see fluff has her eyes closed as she eats!

I get it now, the birds need a feeder they can put their whole head into, and with a design like that, they will keep their eyes open as they peck at the seed.

I am gonna make a new feeder and give it a try. Thanks for the tip!!!