Why do rollers ... roll ? The truth

[RodSD]

Roller quality varies. Some roll down because they can't control the fall. Some do and they are labeled good. We selected those features we want from these birds.

[velo99]

They roll because they can and they like it.

In a competetion a few weeks ago my best team scored a blazing 7.58 points. One break. The week before I scored them at 506.87 with 15 breaks in the same time period of 20 minutes. They acted like they were on fire. They would set up get ready to roll and by the same pigeon language they use to go on a break they decided as a group not to. They would simply fly thru the break. They have control of their ability.

I have seen ferals and rollers use some of the same maneuvers to fine tune thier landing into a difficult area. Ony thing I havent seen in a 'non' performer is an actual spin or a plate. I dont have a fancy degree or a scientific background but I do study my birds and thier behavior.

I cant do a series of backflips for a floor excercise or run the hundred in 10 flat. There are people who can because they have the genetic propensity to have the physical capabilities to perform the maneuvers. Same difference.

jmho
v99

[ND Cooper]

I have to say, that if they choose their actions, given the time, all the time in the world, if possable, and
put in with a group of feral pigeons (set Free?) (normal pigeons), again givin all the time in the world, that, one roller, would revert back to a normal (wild ) pigeon. (through environmental change) or would try as best as it could.
If not, you have a perfect machine, that cannot change.
The Perfect roller pigeon.
If I let my professionally trained bird dog sluff off, he will, do what ever he wants to do.
Freedom makes a difference.
I started smoking Cigs in H.S. I quit for 6 yrs. Now I smoke again-It's not genitic.

All breeds of pigeons are man made, (influenced) except one.

[ppcook]

My dad raised rollers in the 1970s and 80s (some of you may have seen his book, "Genetics Made Simple: with special reference to pigeons" by Dr. Paul P. Cook, Jr) and I recall him telling me that they were descended from a particular flock found in Birmingham, maybe a century or two ago.

Does anyone know when that was?


Paul P. Cook, III

[velo99]

Paul,
I think it was in the mid 1700`s when the breed was actually named and recognised. I dont have anything here in front of me but I think I am close. They were advertised for sale in the 30`s as roller pigeons in the states. I think it was Whittingham who claimed credit for developing the breed and shipped to the US in 1870`s even though there were several faniciers working on the breed. There are a few in depth conversations and some research around on the internet. I might not be exaclty correct in my statements but I have read a lot of info on this subject over the last few years.
I wasnt prepared for a test this morning. lol

[ppcook]

Originally Posted by velo99

Paul,
I think it was in the mid 1700`s when the breed was actually named and recognised. I dont have anything here in front of me but I think I am close. They were advertised for sale in the 30`s as roller pigeons in the states. I think it was Whittingham who claimed credit for developing the breed and shipped to the US in 1870`s even though there were several faniciers working on the breed. There are a few in depth conversations and some research around on the internet. I might not be exaclty correct in my statements but I have read a lot of info on this subject over the last few years.
I wasnt prepared for a test this morning. lol

Thanks for the historical info! Interesting discussion here.

[Columba livia!]

this is a very interesting thread!

[yellowking]

Rollers does not roll for fun. If at all it is for our (human) pleasure, we continue the defects in their genes so that we can enjoy it. The rolling ability is not performed at will, these birds do it uncontrollably. Have you seen a roll down? or a bump? No being on earth will roll for fun just to end up like that. Stop applying human theories and human logic into animals.

A fantail did not make sure it keeps its fantail beauty because it wants to win a show, a homer did not want to only breed with the fastest bird in town so that it can win the prize for its owner!

[RodSD]

I have seen that one of my rollers was able to stop before hitting my roof--twice! It has control! The other bird didn't and hit the ground after takeoff. If these guys doesn't have control they probably will keep on rolling inside the loft uncontrollably killing themselves. I think this is not like Parkinson's disease type. With respect to fun, we don't officially know that yet. But I believe animals have emotions, too, and one of them is pleasure. Have you ever tumbled for fun as kids? I did, and I enjoyed it.

[plamenh]

Rollers does not roll for fun. If at all it is for our (human) pleasure, we continue the defects in their genes so that we can enjoy it. The rolling ability is not performed at will, these birds do it uncontrollably. Have you seen a roll down? or a bump? No being on earth will roll for fun just to end up like that. Stop applying human theories and human logic into animals.

A fantail did not make sure it keeps its fantail beauty because it wants to win a show, a homer did not want to only breed with the fastest bird in town so that it can win the prize for its owner!

That's the real answer!!!

[velo99]

I disagree,
Rollers can choose not to roll. I have too many in my loft as fosters to not know that is a fact.

v99

[yellowking]

Originally Posted by velo99

I disagree,
Rollers can choose not to roll. I have too many in my loft as fosters to not know that is a fact.

v99

That's because your birds can't roll.

You can't look at your own flock and then apply it to the general roller population in the world. Pretty bold to make the statement that it is a fact. Very close minded, if you ask me.

Have you actually seen a top class roller perform before? I have seen birds that spin so fast that they immediately land because they go into shock. I have seen birds that spin so fast their eyes pops out.

You are saying that rollers have the option to choose to spin their egg sacks, eyes, and guts out?

Yeah...Let me know because I want to make sure I don't have any rolldwon this year. Especially if they can choose to live or not. If possible I would want every bird in my loft to survive.

[birds+me=happy]

Well the way I see it, everyone has there own theories about the fact; so if you want to know you just have to make your own theory, or just agree with someone else.

[sreeshs]

It has to be a breeding trait, developed in course of selective breeding. I am not able to comment whether the roll is because of a physical characteristic/defect/ability.

If it was really for fun, then why wouldn't a good number of other pigeon breeds around the world try doing the same ? To add a little confusion, or is it that they do it for fun because the criteria for selective breeding (knowingly/unknowingly) was this fun element itself ?

But one comment to which I would disagree is on the hawk attack factor. A last minute rolls and tumbles get them off the course and is an effective prey tactic against predator attack in air.

[keystonepaul]

seems like rolling just ain't some folks cup of tea, which is fine. Also seems to me that some folks enjoy rollers which appears to be fine as well. Rolling doesn't appear to be much different than any other trait such as the color of a bird, body type, flying ability, a hound dogs nose, a coonhounds ability and willingness to stay at a tree for hour after hour till you get thier, etc. The only difference I see between breeding homers and rollers is that more people find breeding homers for speed and stanima is somehow better or more noble than breeding for rolling. In closing it would seem to me that there are enough folks critical of rollers, tumblers, homers and the like outside of the pigeon world that we don't need to add to that internally. Peace, Keystonepaul