Dilute or not?

[rudolph.est]

Hi all,

Another colour question...


Would you say this bird is blue spread (black) or dilute blue spread (dun)?

He is a very good spread, solid tail and undercarriage with no pattern bleeding through on the wing-shields, but with a slight lacing on the outside of each feather (T-Pattern bleeding through?). The albescent strip on his tail only reaches a quarter of the way to the extremity of the feather. Is he smoky, sooty, dirty? I don't know.

Bill (jbangelfish) is of the opinion he might be a dun spread, heterozygous for smoky and probably expressing other darkening factors to have such a dark beak.

I have two babies (16 days old) from him and a lemon bar hen, one spread, one light check, both with dark feet and beaks (strangely the older check one has much darker skin and beak than the younger spread). They didn't look short downed to me.

Anyone else want to take a stab?

Regards,
Rudolph

[lance_harmon]

Looks like Black Spread.

[george simon]

Originally Posted by rudolph.est

Hi all,

Another colour question...


Would you say this bird is blue spread (black) or dilute blue spread (dun)?

He is a very good spread, solid tail and undercarriage with no pattern bleeding through on the wing-shields, but with a slight lacing on the outside of each feather (T-Pattern bleeding through?). The albescent strip on his tail only reaches a quarter of the way to the extremity of the feather. Is he smoky, sooty, dirty? I don't know.

Bill (jbangelfish) is of the opinion he might be a dun spread, heterozygous for smoky and probably expressing other darkening factors to have such a dark beak.

I have two babies (16 days old) from him and a lemon bar hen, one spread, one light check, both with dark feet and beaks (strangely the older check one has much darker skin and beak than the younger spread). They didn't look short downed to me.

Anyone else want to take a stab?

Regards,
Rudolph

Hi Rudolph,The bird pictured here is a black spread,I am more intrested in the two young out of him and the lemon hen,would like to see a picture of those two young.But without a picture this is what I believe, you have, one of the young is a spread. The lighter one the check is what some would call a silver dun check and others (show people) might call a silver, which is a dilute blue, your lemon hen is a extreme dilute she is infact blue under the lemon,she has passed the dilute to the check while the spread cock pass check(remember bar birds can not make check). Now what I believe makes this intresting is if the check is a dilute will it give us extreme dilute? Dilute and extreme dilute are on the same chromome, take good care of the check and in 8 months or so mate it to a non dilute and see that happens AND KEEP GOOD RECORDS of all that you do with that check. I hope that FRANK will post on this. GEORGE

[jbangelfish]

Originally Posted by george simon

Hi Rudolph,The bird pictured here is a black spread,I am more intrested in the two young out of him and the lemon hen,would like to see a picture of those two young.But without a picture this is what I believe, you have, one of the young is a spread. The lighter one the check is what some would call a silver dun check and others (show people) might call a silver, which is a dilute blue, your lemon hen is a extreme dilute she is infact blue under the lemon,she has passed the dilute to the check while the spread cock pass check(remember bar birds can not make check). Now what I believe makes this intresting is if the check is a dilute will it give us extreme dilute? Dilute and extreme dilute are on the same chromome, take good care of the check and in 8 months or so mate it to a non dilute and see that happens AND KEEP GOOD RECORDS of all that you do with that check. I hope that FRANK will post on this. GEORGE

Any young cocks from the lemon hen will be split for lemon. You could breed a dilute cock to the extreme dilute hen and the same would be true. So you could have a dilute cock that is split for extreme dilute.

I have a figurita project bird that is spread blue, split for extreme dilute. He did produce one extreme dilute young hen. It was born naked and with red eyes, looking like an albino. As they mature, the eyes begin to color in and look less red, even showing pigment over time I believe. Unfortunately, I lost the young bird. I think I have a photo of it somewhere and will post it if I can find it. The father is alittle lighter than a normal spread blue and I've been told that some of the splits for extreme dilute are like this but not all.

Rudolph's bird may be normal spread blue, just a light bird for some reason. I get them too but I'm sure there is something in them that I have not identified, making them lighter than normal. He would be a very dark dun but with darkening factors, this can happen as well. If he has any intense young while mated to an extreme dilute hen, we'll have our answer for sure. Since I think Rudolph said that the young had long down, it may be that you are right and he is intense. Down length is not necessarily a true indicator but it can help to indentify things sometimes.

Bill

[jbangelfish]

Attachment 13304

Attachment 13305

Attachment 13306

This is the little extreme dilute fig hen that I raised. She died at about 12 weeks of age. Too bad, she was a nice little hen. I still have her parents and hope to raise another.

Bill

[Jay3]

What a handsome bird.

[rudolph.est]

Hi Bill,

Was she extreme dilute on blue? Why is there no tail bar? (I assume she might be an ash-red)

The lemon hen I have is a definite blue bird, since she has a very definite tail bar. (I think you can see it in the picture of her in my album.

I will post pictures of the babies as soon as they fledge.

Regards,
Rudolph

[jbangelfish]

No ash red in the mix. Dad is spread blue and mom is blue bar. The baby could have been spread or it might show a very faint tail bar. I'm guessing that as she matured, she would have showed alittle more color. I'll have to wait for another one to find out.

Bill

[george simon]

Some have bred the extreme dilute into red. I like it on blue only because of the tail bar. I wounder how extreme would look on a brown bird. GEORGE

[jbangelfish]

A friend of mine has done alot of work with extreme dilute and he has made quite a few brown base extreme dilutes. For some reason, they have been darker than the blue base birds, looking like light colored khaki's. I may have some pictures of them, if I do, I'll post them.

Bill

[rudolph.est]

Hi Bill, George and everyone.

I think I might have confused by using the word 'light' check. By that I meant the bird is a medium check bird and not that it is a light blue...

Anyway, I'll take pictures of them today and send them on.

I'll be breeding lemon to brown as soon as I have either a lemon or a brown cock. Currently I have hens of these colours. I'll mate their male offspring back to the hens next season to breed cocks. I'll post pictures of the extreme dilute browns as soon as I have bred them.

Kind regards,
Rudolph