Flying flight color?

[MaryOfExeter]

As you can see in this picture, the little guy has a dark bronze tint to his head/neck, but other than that, he looks like a somewhat normal blue bar. His body and wing shield color is a lot darker than normal blues, and it seems like he has some smudge marks on the shields too. Not like checks, similar to what I've seen sooty do to homers. What do you guys think makes up this pigeon? The color is so dark you could almost call him black, since it barely looks blue in color. However you can still clearly see the wing bars and tail band. I don't know what color to call him so I came to you guys

[jbangelfish]

Originally Posted by MaryOfExeter

As you can see in this picture, the little guy has a dark bronze tint to his head/neck, but other than that, he looks like a somewhat normal blue bar. His body and wing shield color is a lot darker than normal blues, and it seems like he has some smudge marks on the shields too. Not like checks, similar to what I've seen sooty do to homers. What do you guys think makes up this pigeon? The color is so dark you could almost call him black, since it barely looks blue in color. However you can still clearly see the wing bars and tail band. I don't know what color to call him so I came to you guys

Well, he's a blue bar anyway but he has some added modifiers. He obviously has some form of bronze but I can't speculate on which one. I believe that he has either dirty or sooty factor, one of which causes the dark smudges in the shield, the general darkening of blue and sometimes the disappearance of the black bars. I can't remember which modifier does this but I can check.

Bill

[george simon]

Hi BECKEY, Do the two outside feathers of the tail have the white stripe,if not then I would say that this bird carries the smoky modifier these smokies are dark birds that have light color beaks as this one does.So I feel that the tail carries the answer here GEORGE

[jbangelfish]

But I don't know about the rest of the factors that this bird may have. Smoky puts light beaks on black and blue birds but it is either dirty or sooty that makes the mottling in the shield. Smoky tends to darken the light and lighten the dark areas. The albescent strip in the tail will be blue intead of white on a smoky and this bird could have it as well.

Bill

[jbangelfish]

I reread what it says about sooty and smoky. He says that sooty makes the dark flecks in the shield, called false checking and smoky can obscure or eliminate the wing bars. The dark flecks do not come in until the moult. The albescent strip will tell if smoky is present by the color of the white or blue strips.

If I remember right, dirty makes dark feet and legs.

Bill

[MaryOfExeter]

Dirty does make very dark feet and legs, so I figured that wasn't it.
I'm thinking it does have smoky, but I'm fixing to go take a wing/tail shot of the bird.

[MaryOfExeter]

Well, here's what I got:
http://picasaweb.google.com/MaryOfExeter/June20th2008

[bluecheck]

There's no doubt about this one - the bird is a smoky blue -- and it looks like it's also carrying sooty as well.

I'd say the bronze in this one is almost a 99.9% certainty to be what we in oriental rollers call "Buff/Tuffy" and which some of the guys say they have confirmed as "ember".

[bigislerollers]

Aloha Becky,

I'm almost positive you have smokey there due to the absence of the albescent (white) strip on the out edges of the tail. But there possibly are some other factors involved. Thats what makes these pigeons so fun, you never know exactly what the next young one will look like.

[MaryOfExeter]

Thanks guys
I've got some babies that just hatched from a pair of Flights. I have a feeling that I'll be back to share the color of them as well. This guy isn't the dad, though. All of his babies so far have taken after their mom, all black. Does putting a blue with a black mostly make more blacks? Since black is spread blue...

[bluecheck]

Becky,

If you pair a blue to a black it depends on whether the black is heterozygous spread or homozygous spread. If homozygous spread, then ALL the babies will be black (heterozygous spread). If the original black parent is (heterozgyous spread, then you will raise approximately 50% of the babies that are also heterozygous spread (black) and 50% that are not spread (wild type at the spread locus) so you will have all blues.

So since all your babies so far from a blue X black mating have been black, your female COULD be homozygous spread. However, you haven't raised enough babies to say definitely. If you raise even one non-spread baby (blue), then you have a female that is heterozygous for spread.

BTW - when we talk about "dirty", genetic symbol V, causing dark feet and legs, we are referring to only the stage in the nest and pretty much immediately thereafter. ALL adult pigeons, whether they are dirty or not, have carmine (red) legs.

Frank
http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pigeongenetics

[jbangelfish]

Originally Posted by bluecheck

Becky,

If you pair a blue to a black it depends on whether the black is heterozygous spread or homozygous spread. If homozygous spread, then ALL the babies will be black (heterozygous spread). If the original black parent is (heterozgyous spread, then you will raise approximately 50% of the babies that are also heterozygous spread (black) and 50% that are not spread (wild type at the spread locus) so you will have all blues.

So since all your babies so far from a blue X black mating have been black, your female COULD be homozygous spread. However, you haven't raised enough babies to say definitely. If you raise even one non-spread baby (blue), then you have a female that is heterozygous for spread.

BTW - when we talk about "dirty", genetic symbol V, causing dark feet and legs, we are referring to only the stage in the nest and pretty much immediately thereafter. ALL adult pigeons, whether they are dirty or not, have carmine (red) legs.

Frank
http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pigeongenetics

The dark feet and legs as I've seen babies and young birds this way but don't have any breeders as such. Now, I know why.

As to all the other genetic info, I couldn't possibly have said it better myself. Thanks Frank.

Bill