Show Homer extreme light mealys - what factor?

[BCBrian]

I have some red bar Show Type Racing Homers in red bar. They are so pale as to amost appear white. What factor do the show homers have that makes some of the red bars appear so faded out? Does this factor appear if these birds are mated to blue? No "genetics people" I've talked with so far - seem to know which factor it is that bleaches out these bird's colours. Any ideas?

[risingstarfans]

This is a tough question. Could we see some pictures?

In fantails we have the milky factor which washes out several colors, and when other modifiers are present do the darndest things.

[jbangelfish]

Without a picture, it's hard to know for sure what you mean. OTOH, I have some ash red figuritas that are very light also, their ash color is almost white and their red is almost yellow, so light that I thought they were yellows.

Dilute will make them creme but I don't know if that's what you are dealing with. Reduced and pale are also lightening factors but I don't know if you have these factors either. Post a pic if you can and we'll try to figure it out.

Bill

[george simon]

Originally Posted by BCBrian

I have some red bar Show Type Racing Homers in red bar. They are so pale as to amost appear white. What factor do the show homers have that makes some of the red bars appear so faded out? Does this factor appear if these birds are mated to blue? No "genetics people" I've talked with so far - seem to know which factor it is that bleaches out these bird's colours. Any ideas?

HI BCBRIAN, I believe you have MILKY working there I will quote from AXEL SELL'S BOOK BREEDING AND INHERITANCE IN PIGEONS."Milky is a recessive gene not sex linked. On an ash red color basis milky also makes a softer coloration.mealy bars will get a grey-cream coloration with red bars and cream bars will yellow-cream with faint bars. GEORGE

[BCBrian]

Here are some photos. This factor seems to be the "norm" in the show type racing homers up here in BC. The birds are much different in colour from the racing birds I own.

[TAWhatley]

That is a very, very good looking bird, Brian! I don't have a clue about the genetics involved, but the bird is gorgeous! Thank you for sharing those photos.

Terry

[MaryOfExeter]

My only guess is that it may have spread. Some birds I guess you could say have weaker expressions of it. I think that would cause the bars to slightly show like this, and the color to be near missing on the neck.

[dimerro]

Looks like Milky to me.

[jbangelfish]

Spread would eliminate the bars.

Bill

[dimerro]

Originally Posted by BCBrian

This factor seems to be the "norm" in the show type racing homers up here in BC.

Ice is another answer. Here, in Romania, almost all show homers are Ice.

[jbangelfish]

I wondered about ice but wasn't sure how it would look with ash red. The fact that it's prevalent in this breed makes it very likely and I can imagine that it would look like these birds.

Bill

[bluecheck]

This is a question waiting to be answered. Doc Hollander believed that a lot of birds that had the "gris" head like this one were actually carrying a form of recessive opal (one of those forms actually looks to be ash-red); I don't hold with the milky idea, while possible, it doesn't seem to pop up in the blues that come out of these ash-reds sometimes and if it were milky you'd also expect to at least pop one or two milky blues at some point. I, personally, think it's a genetic mystery still. However, I'm copying these pics and I'm going to send them off to some of the genetics guys to see if there has been more work done on them that I'm unaware of - for the past five years I've sort of been everywhere else except the pigeons.

[bluecheck]

Here's what Paul Gibson says: These look like red-phase recessive opals to me. Paul G.

[bluecheck]

What Paul G. says above actually could make sense. If you are pairing the "ash" to "ash" and getting these, then it could well be the ash-red mimic of recessive opal. It could even be the ash-red mimic of recessive opal over ash-red.

[BCBrian]

If the birds are, in fact, Recessive Opal on a red base, then a loft like mine - with a prevalance of light "washed out" mealies, should have lots of blue-based birds (which are frequently crossed to the red-based birds - with no regard to colour) showing Recessive Opal.

Up here - that is not the case.

Pale, faded-out mealies are very common - but Recessive Opals - in blue - are almost (or are totally) unknown in Show Type Homers around here.

Recessive Opals in blue, are so rare in fact - that I've never seen a single one in a Show Homer.

Yet most shows up here, will have dozens of these faded red bars.