Ya Gotta See This Mosaic Roller ..

[jbangelfish]

Originally Posted by newday

Here's the photo I posted earlier. I beleive its is possible some families have a higher likelyhood of throwing mosaics. This is the 2nd mosaic that I got from its father. Jow Powers said that he had a family that threw many mosaics.

Link
www.martinlofts.com

Or did he produce more than one mosaic from the same hen? It rather sounds like the cock bird is the carrier of whatever this is and all the more reason to suspect that there is something new out there. Cock birds carry alot more genes than hens.

Bill

[newday]

Same cock two years in a row - different hens.

Link

www.martinlofts.com

[jbangelfish]

Originally Posted by newday

Same cock two years in a row - different hens.

Link

www.martinlofts.com

It almost looks to me as if it could just be almond and spread but could it be that simple? I have an almond cock mated to a black hen and they have what looks to be an almond and a t pattern blue in the nest. We'll have to see what else they produce. I have no kite hens yet.

Bill

[jeepsterwannabe]

that is a great looking bird....Color is what got me interested in chickens and pigeons. i mean what other animal has the potential for so many color varieties other than some aquarium fish.

again,.... beautiful bird

[gingerpoo]

Oh WOW!
he is gorgeous!!!!

I want one! so pretty.

/me jealous

[summerhays]

here is a mosaic roller i have. he has bred other mosaics.

[jbangelfish]

We see so many mosaics today. I'm sure that we're on the verge of cracking some genetic code to making them.

Bill

[TAWhatley]

Very cool, indeed! Welcome to Pigeon-Talk, Summerhays, and thank you for the photo!

Terry

[MaryOfExeter]

Well we better crack that genetic code soon, cause I'd love to have a loft full of those!

[Matt D.]

Originally Posted by jbangelfish

This bird exemplifies my own theory, that we have found a combination to creating visual mosaics.

Doc Hollander may have been the best genetic person to ever study pigeons but he did not know everything and he would be the first to tell you that this was true. He may very well have owned a true genetic freak that was dubbed "mosaic", a bird that was a true one in a million that was actually a near siamese twin or two birds in one. The birds that I see today look like something else to me, especially when there are so many of them. What are the odds of one family producing more than one of these freaks that has two sperm to produce it? Yes, you could have found a group that would have the tendency to do so but I'm more inclined to believe that it is a rather complex genetic code that has yet to be cracked and has all to do with multiple genes as opposed to multiple sperms.

New things occur all the time. I believe that people have found the path to creating mosaic pigeons, they just don't know the combination yet, only that they run in families or genetic groups. This suggests something new, at least to me.

Bill

Now I'm not big on genetics but I'm working on it. While your theory makes sense; I am thinking of a mosaic I saw in Fresno one time. It came from a blue bar and a sooty red bar hen. It was this split down the middle and the red was on the right side and the blue bar was on the left side. It was a very interesting bird. It was a long time ago too. But my point is that there wasn't anything really uncommon besides the dilute in this racers pedigree. So if there is a complex mix of genes that would create these mosaics; It would be mind boggling to know the chances that out of a simple racers gene pool that all of these genes could come into a racer. My guess would be the chance are slim to none. Its more than possible Matt's wrong; its happened once or twice before.

[Revolution Lofts]

WOW is all i can say about the pigeon. Who ever owns it is very lucky, if only there was a hen just like it, the babies would be gorgeous! :P

This reminds me...theres a mosaic pigeon down the street with some guy, im gonna try trading it with one of my rollers.

[george simon]

In July when this thread was started I was off line so I will add my comments now. First I believe in Dr HOLLANDER'S two sperm theory.With that said I will try to point out some facts which are not genetic. We need to understand that back in the 1930's thur the 1970's or80's supplements were not in vogue. However that has changed and now more supplement are in use and I feel is the reason that we may be seeing more MOSAICS. Some supplements are said to increase fertility so lets take a look at some of the vitamins,amino acids, and minerals that we use in supplementing our birds. Vitamin B12 improves the sperm count, Selenium is essential to maximise sperm formation,Vitamin C appears to keep sperm from clumping together,making the sperm more motile,L-Carnitine this amino acid is essential for normal functioning of sperm cells according to reserch,it appears that the higher the levels of L-Carnitine in the sperm cells,the better the sperm count and motility. These are just a few of the supplements there are others like ZINC and Vitamin E. I believe that we by using these supplement have improved the mobilty and health of the sperm this in turn may effect the sperm reaching the egg and thus improving the chance of two sperm getting into the egg,and thus we may be seeing more MOSAICS..,.... THINK ABOUT IT.GEORGE

[risingstarfans]

This is a very striking example of mosaic. We don't normally see spread colors like these in mosaic, most are ash red/blue. BTW, white doesn't count....

I have only raised two mosaics in my fantails over the past 50 years+. Both in the same nest. I lost all my pictures of these when my puter crasned five years ago.

[jbangelfish]

Originally Posted by summerhays

here is a mosaic roller i have. he has bred other mosaics.

Others have said that almond was in the breeding of their mosaics and it is my suspicion that almond is part of the combination required. This bird is obviously ash red split for bue but he took the blue a step further than most split birds. The fact that he has produced more mosaics certainly points to a genetic marker, even if it is the tendency to produce mulitiple sperm fertilizations, which I still doubt.

Does anyone have a mosaic hen? It seems to me that all I've seen have been cock birds. This might also be a clue as cock birds can be split so many ways more than hens.

Bill

[jbangelfish]

Originally Posted by george simon

In July when this thread was started I was off line so I will add my comments now. First I believe in Dr HOLLANDER'S two sperm theory.With that said I will try to point out some facts which are not genetic. We need to understand that back in the 1930's thur the 1970's or80's supplements were not in vogue. However that has changed and now more supplement are in use and I feel is the reason that we may be seeing more MOSAICS. Some supplements are said to increase fertility so lets take a look at some of the vitamins,amino acids, and minerals that we use in supplementing our birds. Vitamin B12 improves the sperm count, Selenium is essential to maximise sperm formation,Vitamin C appears to keep sperm from clumping together,making the sperm more motile,L-Carnitine this amino acid is essential for normal functioning of sperm cells according to reserch,it appears that the higher the levels of L-Carnitine in the sperm cells,the better the sperm count and motility. These are just a few of the supplements there are others like ZINC and Vitamin E. I believe that we by using these supplement have improved the mobilty and health of the sperm this in turn may effect the sperm reaching the egg and thus improving the chance of two sperm getting into the egg,and thus we may be seeing more MOSAICS..,.... THINK ABOUT IT.GEORGE

This is certainly a possibility but even this one results in a genetic code which could be broken. Plants have been altered genetically by chemical introductions which result in stronger, disease and pest resistant strains. It is still an understanding of genetics which makes these things possible. It's almost scary what people have figured out about plants. Pigeons are more complex, making it more of a challenge but I'm pretty sure that we are on the verge of figuring this one out. Who knows? Maybe we'll do it right here.

Bill