Baby Woodie, Crop not Emptying Fully.

[amyable]

Hi,

I have taken over hand feeding two baby Woodies three days ago.

I think they're about 10 days old, give or take a couple of days, not totally sure. I was keeping them on heat but last night I noticed they were hyper-ventilating so I took them off. I'm keeping them in an airing cupboard which is warm.

The one's crop doesn't seem to be emptying like the other one. The bottom part still feels a bit ballony even after a night without a feed.
It was being fed soaked chick crumbs before I got them, but I have changed them onto Kaytee as that's all I had.

Yesterday, to try and help, I gave it Manuka Honey in warm water.
A pinch of Bicarbonate of Soda in water.
I've been making up it's feed with ACV water.
Put a quarter of a teaspoon of live yoghurt mixed in the feed.

It still seems the same today though.

It seems very perky and nuzzling for feed still like the other one. In fact it had two feeds less than the other one and they still weighed the same this morning. (150 gms).

I've just given it some more Bicarbonate in warm water dripped into his beak. Is there anything else I can do to help?

Thanks

Janet

[Feefo]

Hi Janet,


Have a look at the Kaytee exact instructions on the package. As I remember it mentions the ambient temperature and feeding the baby infant apple sauce.

When a juvenile wood pigeon developed that problem the vet prescribed spartrix and Nystatin...but his crop hadn't emptied at all.

Also make certain that it is not a flap in the crop that is preventing it from emptying. Sometimes their crops will stretch and a bit of food will get trapped. This thread covers the subject: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showth...referrerid=560

Cynthia

[amyable]

Thanks for that thread, very similar sounding. I was searching for threads all day yesterday and didn't find that one which is shame.
I only fed them the same amounts the first day as they were the same weight, so I hadn't thought it might be over feeding as the other one is fine.
As of yesterday since I noticed this I am feeding the ok one as normal but this one has only had one feed to his three.

I tried to get infant apple sauce yesterday but couldn't find any, I have apples at home, if I stew them to liquid would this be the same?

I've looked at his crop and it hasn't got a fold in it, it's just a little balloony and sqidgey lower down compared to the other's. I might try a bra anyway in case he just needs a little support !

I've just given him some digestive enzymes in warm water to see if that helps.

After reading the other thread I think I can at least give him some Poly Aid if it hasn't resolved by tomorrow as I'm worried about him not eating for so long now.

Janet

[james fillbrook]

after you go through all of that troble at the end it will be worth it

[Feefo]

The main problem with the crop not emptying properly is that the trapped food develops bacteria.

Have you got any Potent Brew? If so, give 1ml straight into the crop.

You could also massage the bottom of the crop after feeding water with enzymes or even Poly Aid, to mix the trapped food, thin it and encourage it to go through. But you have to be very, very careful about quantities as you don't want him to aspirate.

Ous Silly Billy Squeaker had crop stasis, in the end it was a matter of life and death and I had to milk the crop...I hated doing it, it is such a dangerous operation and I was terrified that I would lose her. However, Silly Billy Squeaker survived and is now an adult hen that finds it soooo embarassing to be called by her baby name!

My Little Angel retained food in her crop for weeks, I had to use Potent Brew daily. She is so beautiful and confident now, I must post a picture, her name really suits her.

Cynthia

Cynthia

[amyable]

Hi Cynthia,

Well it does seem a bit better today.

She went without food for 24 hours, and I only gave warm water with enzymes mixed in three times instead.

This morning the crop was much flatter, and she was desperate for food, so I have been feeding her watery exact with enzymes mixed in. So far so good. I just leave her an extra hour between feeds compared to her sibling, A bit of a nuisance having different feed times but she does take longer to empty.

I have actually ordered some more Potent Brew today as the one I had has been in the fridge for a long time since I last used it, and it has a very short shelf life, so I didn't dare use it.

Amazingly enough she is still the same weight as her sibling even though he has been feeding every four hours quite normally.
I am wondering if in fact I'm under feeding them, will check their weights tomorrow and if still 150 gms, then I assume I should feed a bit more.
I'm calculating it as 10% of their body weight in formula, perhaps I should go to 12%. A bit nervous of stretching their crops after this scare.

I really hope it doesn't come to needing to milk the crop, I'm too nervous about trying that myself, I'll give the Potent Brew as soon as it arrives though.

Thanks for that thread, it was very helpful.

Janet

[Feefo]

Woodies can be difficult to feed, I once overfed two and was terrified, but they survived. Are you using the syringe and balloon method or tube feeding?
If tube feeding then I think you have to keep an eye on the crop rather than feed them a fixed amount.

Cynthia

[amyable]

Hi Cynthia,

I'm using the syringe and balloon method.

I have just been to give them a last feed for tonight and the one is fine, but I am a little worried about the poorly one again.

Her crop wasn't completly empty so I decided to just give her a little warm water this time.
As I picked her up she sneeezed a few times, I hope this isn't anything to worry about. I let her be for tonight and hope she's better in the morning again.

Janet

[Feefo]

How is she today, Janet?

Cynthia

[amyable]

Hi Cynthia,

Well this morning she was completely empty !!! and squeaking like mad for a feed. The sneezing seems to have stopped although I was worried last night as they were 'wet' sneezes. Seemed that her nostrils were wet, so I was concerned that she had fluid in her airways. Doesn't seem to be a problem today thank goodness.

She is still 150gms, as opposed to her sibling who is now 175gms, but I suppose with her missing feeds so often, it's to be expected.
She still isn't emptying her crop fully during the day though, so even though she wasn't fully empty on the last feed at 7.00pm, I topped her up and am possibly going to miss the last feed again and just give warm water at bedtime. I'm geting a bit neurotic about feeding her if she is still a bit puffy.
What do you think?

It's strange the effect the enzymes have on the formula when mixed in. No matter how much Kaytee powder I add, the mixture just stays watery, so she literally drinks it down. I haven't received the Potent Brew I ordered yet, so am keeping up the enzymes for now as I think they are helping her digestion.

It will be more time consuming, but I may have to give them inbetween feeds from now on so her formula can be a bit thicker.

She is a very lively little soul all the same.
Today I put them outside in a cage, surrounded by branches as the sun was so warm. I wanted them to listen to the birds, especially the Woodies cooing.
I do a very poor impression of a Woodie.

Janet

[Feefo]

Does she empty overnight? I think that if they empty their crop completely in 24 hours it is OK.

There is a Group of Facebook called Fluent in Wood Pigeon and proud of it, but it is not very active and as far as I can tell all the members know is one version of "It's two coos, Taffy!" and have never got involved in a "Huh!" conversation or heard any variations og the courting HrOOOOoooo!

Cynthia

[amyable]

Originally Posted by cyro51

Does she empty overnight? I think that if they empty their crop completely in 24 hours it is OK.

Cynthia

Hi,

Yes she does empty overnight.
Her first feed of the day always goes down aswell, then the second more or less goes through. It seems now that it's the third feed that is slower as by the time I go to feed the fourth time, she is always still a little puffy then.
Today I haven't given her any enzymes in her feed as I thought she should be taking it a bit thicker now, like the sibling, and it did make it very watery.
I've just decided to give her the last feed tonight, which I normally miss, to see if this empties overnight without any enzyme help.

She is so funny though. I think after having been deprived of some of her feeds, unlike her brother, (I've just decided they're brother and sister, haven't a clue really), anyway, she is absolutely manic when she sees me and the syringe. I have a heck of a job disengaging her beak from the hole, even once all the feed has gone, she just hangs on just in case there's more. She really intends catching up as fast as she can !

If she's emptied ok by the morning without any enzyme water, then I think I'll just treat her the same as the other one from then on, he's a text book baby. As you say, if she's emptying at least once in 24 hours, then she should be alright.

I'm just off to have a 'chat' with the Woodies on Facebook !!!

Janet