2 hatchlings...

[Izzy]

Hello all and thank you for having such an awesome forum! I was thrilled to have found you via Google, wish I had found you a few days earlier, but better late than never!

I'm in St. Louis, Missouri and this past Tuesday afternoon, a friend of mine phoned to say he had found two little baby pigeons while he was redoing his roof. He didn't know what to do, so I told him to look around for a nest first. He said he didn't see one and I asked if there were any pigeons around, maybe one was the mom, but he said no. He didn't know what to do and knowing how much I loved all animals, he asked if he could bring them over.

I was a bit reluctant, because during this past Spring, I had tried to nurse several other types of little birds that had fallen from nests. They had all died during the night and it upset me a lot and I really didn't want to go through that again.

Anyhow, he brought them over and I saw that they were soooo very tiny. Just a bit of yellow down on them, these huge black circles, where the eyes are supposed to be and generally very pitiful looking. I immediately went online to see what I needed to do to help these birds out. I was glad that at least my friend knew they were pigeons, as I was totally clueless.

I found one site that told me to feed them watered down cat food. So, I go to the store and and buy dry cat food, along with a syringe and a couple of eye droppers. After seeing several picts of squabs, I realize these two little guys had to have hatched earlier that day, so I read that they need to be fed every two hours. I knew I was in for a very long night, but was determined to do all I could to help them out.

I fed them this mixture every 2 hours. At first it was quite difficult to get their beaks to open, as they squirmed and twisted their necks around. They are so very tiny, I had to be very careful not to squish them, but managed to get food into them. I put them in a little box with some paper towels and get out a red lamp that I used a few years ago when I was incubating chinese painted quail and brooding them. These two chicks felt like little ice cubes while I fed them, so I wanted to get them warmed up.

I had no clue how warm they should be, but I was guessing from my quail experience it should be around 90 degrees or so. I put a thermometer on top of the little box and adjusted the light until it was around that temp. I was thrilled to see they survived the first 24 hours! I hadn't expected that at all. I was also happy to see they were pooping, because I knew what was going in, was also coming out, which I thought was a good thingy, lol.

Yesterday, Wednesday, I found your site! I was so happy to see an area on how to take care of squabs. So, I went out and purchased baby cereal and made them a little nest from a cool whip container. I fed them this every 2 hours again, until about midnight last when I was just so completely exhausted that I crashed. I totally freaked out when I woke up at 6am! It had been six hours since they had last eaten and I was terrified when I walked over to their little box, I just knew they were going to be dead. But no, they were still hanging in there and I feed them again.

Today, I fed them about every 4 hours and I need to do one more feeding in one hour, then I'll go to bed again. It's getting a little easier to feed them now, as I'm getting the hang of it and I'm very optimistic about them living for 3 days now. My friend stopped by earlier today and told me they were bigger! I hadn't noticed because I look at them constantly.

Ok, I'm rambling like mad and I apologize that this is so very long, but I'm sleepy and want to see if anyone can give me any advice whatsoever. Is it ok that my hopes are up that they will survive? What is the ideal temperature for them to be at now? How long until they open their eyes? I'm getting attached to them but think maybe they are not ideal household pets and I should let them go free, is that true? If so, how do I not make them tame or can that be done? If they are to go free, at what age do I let them go?

As you can, I have loads of questions, so any advice or information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for reading all of this and I look forward to reading your replies and checking out the forum more completely.

Izzy

[Izzy]

It's just me again and I noticed there was a 'thumbs down' symbol next to my post. I could of sworn I hit the question mark icon, but doh, I must be sleepier than I realized. So, my apologies.

I just remembered one more question. By feeding the squabs this baby cereal mixed with warm water mixture, it's oatmeal cereal, btw, am I giving them the best start nutritionally? If not, can you please tell me what I should purchase to make sure they get off to a healthy start?

Thank you again,
Izzy

[Izzy]

I promise! I keep thinking of things right after I hit post, oy, I'm sorry to be such a nuisance, I hope you all don't think I'm a complete dork.

The first day I got the little babies, they were very still and didn't make a sound. On day two, one of them starting making a little chirping sound. Today, they both make that sound when I go get them to feed them. I hope this isn't the dumbest question in the world, but is this ok? After I feed them and put them back into their nest, they move around and peep/chirp a bit more, but by the time I get them back to the lamp, they doze off again and are quiet.

Oh geez, I forgot what my 2nd question was and I'm trying to remember because I said I wasn't going to post again. Ok, it's 5 minutes later and I remembered, woohoo! I read something on this site about the "crop" on the squabs. I looked very closely at them, but don't know exactly where that is. I don't see the food go in there when I feed them, but go very slowly and make sure the eye dropper is behind the tongue and far enough to where I'm hoping it won't go into the lungs. I guess it's going in the right place, since they are still here, but can someone explain what this 'crop' looks like and where exactly it is on/under the neck?

Ok, I'm going to feed them now and then I'm really going to bed. I seriously think I only have two brain cells working right now, thank you again for your patience.

Izzy

[cyro51]

Hi Izzy,

Late for work, so excuse my brevity!

I am e-mailing you the ideal feeding plan , please read the instructions carefully!

Baby pigeons should be kept at 80 degrees farenheit.

The nest should not be made of straw but should have depth and grip at the bottom for their feet.

Cynthia

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Izzy,

Good work on the baby pigeons. Pigeons chicks are very different from many birds in the fact that they are very hardy birds. Many baby birds are extremely fragile and succomb easily to improper diets or inadaquate temps. Baby pigeons are quite different and very resiliant creatures so you should have some luck with these ones surviving. Read what Cynthia left for instructions for them. If you have a heating pad, place this under their bowl on low for warmth and keep them in a small box to contain the heat. If you can go out to the pet store and get some Katee exact baby bird hand rearing formula this would be better than the cat chow. There are also others on the market that will suffice. The important thing to remember is to keep the mixture, (whatever it is) very thin and watery at this stage of their lives. You can thicken it later on as they get older. Pigeons make great pets and will quickly imprint on you and think you are mom, so it's up to you how you want to handle this. If you want them to be Wild again in the future, spend as little time with them as possible and when their eyes open, try to feed them without them seeing you. Sounds hard and it is, but if they see you then they see humans as friends. You could use a box with only a hole to feed them and peek through the top of it while your hands feed them through the hole. It's hard to explain. But in any case, if they end up being tame and they probably will, and you dont want to keep them, Someone on this site or someone they know will want them so releasing them if tame is NOT a good idea. You're doing a great job with them and continued wishes for success. Their eyes will open at about 5 days old and they can start being introduced to seeds at about 14-17 days old.


Best of luck,

Brad

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi again Izzy,

The crop is just under the throat and as you feed them, you will see it expand like a balloon. The skin is very translucant and thin. Ideally you want the crop to be full but not "hard". After a feeding, just make sure that the crop area is mushy still and gel like. If you feed them too much, the crop can get impacted and then they have a hard time digesting the food. Don't worry too much and follow common sense rules and you should be fine. The "chirping" sounds are a good sign. This shows that the chicks are vibrant and energetic still. They will fall asleep after feedings and with warmth. Baby pigeons will sleep all the time accept when feeding. Feed them every two hours during the day and a couple of times over night.



Brad

[Izzy]

Hello Cynthia and Brad! I received your email Cynthia, had a few questions, sent you an email back, thank you!

Thank you also Brad for your replies, it's nice to get 'first hand' information from those of you who are experienced, such invaluable advice that I'm happy to have found.

I think I understand where the 'crop' is now, they have grown a bit and now I do see where the food goes first. It's like a bit of saggy skin, kind of like a 'pigeon double chin', lol! I don't know that I'm been filling it up enough, usually 2-3 drops gets them swallowing and I wait like a minute until they stop moving their little beaks to make sure the food is down before I give them another bite.

The heating pad is a fab idea! Yesterday it got quite warm, 89 degrees outside, though it's usually in the 50's/60's in the a.m. When I went to feed them in the afternoon, they were "very" warm and so very lethargic. After a few minutes of exposure to normal air in the room, they really perked up though. I noticed they chirped the most when alone in the box, I feed them one at a time and one has to wait while the other eats. When they both finish eating, I put them back together and they cuddle, get quiet and fall asleep quickly.

As far as pigeons as pets, I never realized they were good pets, until I found your site! I want what is best for these two pigeons welfare, so I just assumed letting them go free was what they wanted and would be happiest outside in the city. I can't imagine not holding them or talking to them, I so enjoy that. I noticed this morning that there are tiny little slits in the middle of their eyes now, like they are starting to open their eyes, but it's very tiny. I'm going to try to get some pictures later to keep track of their progress.

I read a post about weighing them, that's an awesome idea also and I will start doing that today! Thank you again for your responses, I'm sure I'll be back several times a day as something new happens. In the meantime, I'll read as much as I can find here on this site.

Izzy

[cyro51]

Hi Izzy,

After feeding the crop should look like a partially inflated balloon.

I have copied and pasted this from one of Mary's old posts because she has included quantities for feeding:

At about 1-2 days old the baby only gets 1 cc of food (very thin formula, 1 part powder to 5 parts water + probiotics) every 2 hours by handfeeding (I would not recommend the tube unless you have a very thin one) and it's always best to leave the baby with a foster couple at this age.

-Day 3-4 the amount can be doubled to about 3 cc every 3-4 hours or so and the formula should be a tiny bit thicker.

-Day 5-7 you can feed 10-11 cc every 5 hours and the formula should be thicker.

Cynthia

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Izzy,

You're welcome. We are all hoping that these chicks make it and are routing for your success. Here is a detailed list of instructions about the young chicks and how to look after them. It's very detailed but try to keep the most important things in mind. It seems a little stringant and difficult but hopefully you'll get something out of it :


REARING A BABY PIGEON:

Whatever the reason you may be called upon to take up the task of hand-rearing a baby bird, you must remember that it is very time consuming, especially with chicks that are very young.
The following rules will help you to be successful.
1. The need for heat and humidity of the brooder.
2. The need for the correct recipe, consistency and temperature of the diet.
3. The need for the correct feeding technique, frequency and hygiene.
4. The need to monitor the babies progress and to be able to detect signs of problems.
The Need for Heat
A new born chick requires a temperature between 33-37 degrees C. As the chick grows and produces feathers its need for heat diminishes.
The best brooder can easily be made from a glass or plastic fish tank or a laminated wooden box. Untreated wood or cardboard is ill advised as it harbours germs and prevents adequate cleaning. The heat source can be a heat pad or even a 15 watt light globe housed inside a tin can that is about 12cm across. It should not get hot enough to burn the chick. A hot water bottle changed frequently is another alternative heat source. Whatever method is used to warm the brooder the heat can be kept in by a simple lid of a sheet of polystyrene with air holes punched in.
It is important to closely monitor your charges. Chicks which are too cold become lifeless and are cold to touch. Chicks that are too hot at first will show a red wrinkled skin then become restless, pant, gasp and hurl themselves around the brooder in a frenzy. Overheating is often fatal.
• The floor of the brooder should be lined with fine wood shavings with a layer of paper towelling on top. The purpose of the towelling is to monitor the bowel movements of the young bird.
• Humidify the air via an open dish of water covered with wire to prevent an accidental drowning. Humid air will prevent dehydration of the baby bird.
• Keep the baby warm (at least 80 degrees F). If the squab is completely without feathers (only has yellow down), a ventilated box containing a red light bulb is needed, (hot water bottles do not last through the night.) If the baby is fledged, then a cardboard box lined with kitchen paper is adequate
• Keep the baby dry!
• Keep the baby in a quiet, safe place - away from noise, curious humans, cats, dogs, etc.
How much, how often?
The consistency of the food will depend greatly upon the age of the bird. A youngster that is only a day or two old will be able to handle extremely thin watery food every 2 hours, if the crop has completely emptied.Newborn chicks have only small crops and will not hold much food at all. Do not force the chick to take more than it can handle. Remember they are very weak at this tender age and will eat very slowly and tire quickly.
If you want to rear the bird yourself it is best to feed it 3-4 times a day. Acceptable foods include Complan fed through a syringe, wholemeal bread soaked in warm water or milk or a mash of warm porridge or digestive biscuit with a little scrambled or boiled free-range egg (about a third of an egg at first, increasing to half an egg per day). Unlike garden birds who gape when hungry, it is necessary for the squab’s beak to be gently opened to receive tiny pellets of food that should be pushed into the back of the throat. Feed until the crop feels plump or the bird loses interest. Food can be moistened, but do not squirt water into the mouth as baby birds can choke or actually drown this way.
You must get food and water into the baby: if she is too young to eat by herself, you will need to feed her by hand. Make a baby bird formula (whole meal bread soaked in warm water or milk or a mash of warm porridge), and buy a feeding syringe (no needles, just a feeding syringe).
Fill the syringe with formula; make sure it is not too thick or you will not be able to push it through. Carefully open the little squeaker’s beak. Insert the syringe carefully into her mouth and squeeze a little bit at a time. It will take you a good twenty to thirty minutes probably, and the squeaker needs feeding at least five times a day. Babies must be fed! The food should be made thicker to a melted ice cream consistency as the chick grows. Feeding intervals will be determined by the speed of the emptying of the crop. Only very young birds need feeding at night, and then only once at about 3 a.m. otherwise four times daily feeding until 5 weeks of age is adequate. The food should be given at 42 degrees F. This is the temperature that can be tolerated on the lip without burning. In between feeds boil the utensils etc. so as to prevent any food spoilage and subsequent infections. Syringes can also be used.
Feed your bird every day, even after she begins eating seed by herself. Spilled food around the face should be cleaned with a warmed clean cloth before it dries. A “bib” may help to keep the feathers clean as well as a fine warm water mist spray over the body when the weather is hot, but ensure that the pigeon does not get a chill. When she first starts showing an interest in picking up seed, she will need at least one more week of handfeeding to be sure she is getting enough nutrition. It takes a while for a baby to learn how to eat and drink, so be patient. Small seeds like millet can be added gradually until the youngster begins to feed itself. When the squab is old enough to begin to peck at seeds, provide a shallow dish of water and cage bird grit.
The first indications that the time for weaning is correct is the growing lack of interest in their food. When this behaviour begins a variety of soft foods can be placed in a shallow dish on the floor of the brooder or cage. Remove these foods after 6 hours and replace fresh each morning.Feed the birds only in the evening until they lose interest and then weaning should be completed.Weaning is encouraged by offering a variety of soft foods such as fresh corn, steamed peas, broccoli, pumpkin, carrots, apple, fruits, soaked lentils, beans, sunflower seed. Seed should be given in as small quantities as possible. Millet sprays are given on a daily basis to stimulate the weaning process. Clean seed mixes soaked for 24 to 48 hours helps your bird develop a taste for a variety of seed types.The newly weaned bird will try new foods more readily than at any other period in its life, so offer your bird a variety of foods during this time.Birds start flying at the same time as weaning . The birds should be provided with a low perch during the weaning process and offered water twice a day in a low dish.
Once it is well feathered (appearing last under the wings), keep the youngster outside in some sort of cage safe from cats during the daytime. This will help it get used to other birds: encourage it to pick up it’s own seeds and grains and get beneficial sunlight. Ideally it should spend some time in a rehabilitation aviary. But if this is not possible, do ensure that the bird can fly properly and eat by itself before release, allowing it to strengthen and try it’s wings in a bedroom or garage.
When you are satisfied that it is able to fend for itself, let it go in fine weather in a safe area, perhaps a town or city park, well away from cats, where it can join a regularly fed existing flock who have all year round access to water.
About 45 days after birth, a pigeon can fly. Please do not release her until you are sure she can fly well and defend herself. If you release her, bring her back to where you found her or to a safe area nearby, preferably where there are other pigeons.
If you rescued her at a very young age and feel that she should not be released into the wild, or if any other injury/condition exists so that she can be released, then you should provide her with a good home. That means she should have room to fly and always have dry, fresh food and clean water.
Three weeks to independence
At around three weeks, it is time to start the weaning process by leaving a few that small seeds for it to peck at and a container of water so do not it can drink.
Very young babies that do not get real pigeon milk usually grow much more slowly than babies that get the milk so do not get discouraged and be patient. Hand feeding babies from day one is a last resort because they do grow much more slowly than when fed by their own parents, and sometimes they just do not make it.
Babies need water, too. Keep a close watch on the babies when you first set them out to see that they get the water they need. Some signs to watch for are: blinking eyes or the crop (digestive tract of the bird where the food is stored before digestion) will feel hard. If the crop is hard, give them a little water with a syringe and tube, and massage the feed in the crop and it will soften up. Once you see them take a good drink on their own, they will not have any more problems. But make it easy on them. Always place the water in the same container and put the container in the same location in the cage. Just like people, pigeons need more water when it is hot, so watch them closely in hot weather.
All baby birds are frail. Any period of cold weakens their ability to thrive, and infant mortality in nature is always high.


Brad

[Izzy]

I think I finally know what the "crop" is! I was thinking it was like on the throat area, kind of like a turkey has one of those hanging skin things. But after rereading your posts and feeding them just now again, I think it's actually like the upper portion of their body! Is this right?

When I turn them over and look at them, it's like their bodies are divided into two parts, the front and the back end. The front part kind of looks like a furry peach, it even has an indentation like a peach, then the back end starts, which is much more solid.

It is like a balloon! I hadn't ever noticed that the food fills up in there, until I finally paid close attention. I really had no idea of how much to feed them, until your post today, but was guessing.

I noticed since I switched over to just baby oatmeal cereal yesterday, they're really pooping a lot more now. It's also very watery yellow color and sometimes it's just a green glob. The first couple of days, they only pooped like once a day and it was a hard green and white thingie. Do they just poop more as they get a few days older?

I made a list of things to purchase to make their new formula and will be going out tomorrow to get all the stuff. But right now, I'm still just giving them the watery cereal mix. I noticed today how much longer the yellow down is on them. I also weighed both of them, one is .5 ounces and the other is .75 ounces. They both have little black slits in their eyes, I actually think their eyes are much smaller than I first realized. I thought they were HUGE, since those black circles on the sides of their heads are so large so I figured that whole thingy was an eye, but after looking closer, I see that right around the tiny black slit, looks like a little oval shape, is this the actual eye?

I feel like such a moron, not knowing anything at all about these little guys. Again, I'm so thankful to have found you all here, I don't know how I would of managed so far. It's been quite the learning experience and I know I still really don't know very much.

Oh, I also noticed little opening on the sides of their heads, is this their ear openings? I can't imagine what else it would be. I was able to get a few picts with my digital camera today, so I'll try to see if I can post them later on and maybe you can tell me what sort of pigeons I have also.

Thank you again,
Izzy

[Izzy]

I'm sorry, but I forgot to thank you Brad for posting those rearing tips, thank you! I have to admit I was feeling like, "what the heck have I gotten myself into" after I finished reading it all, but like you said, it's very, very detailed. I love having "more" information than less, so that post was extremely helpful! I happen to live in quite a humid environment, so I think luck has played a great part in helping these two little squabs survive for 4 days now. I have to admit, I've become extremely attached to them already, I'm such a sucker for any sort of babies, lol!

My two dogs are so used to my bringing in all sorts of hurt or sick animals, they barely raised their heads when these two birds came here. They have absolutely no interest whatsoever, lol! My youngest dog, Lily, starts to let me know when I'm coo'ing with them too much though, she's a bit bossy about being the "only" baby in this house, lol!

Ok, I hope to get a bit of rest, still not using all my brain cells, been a very long week of grabbing an hour of sleep here and there, can't wait until I can sleep a whole 5-6 hours again.

[Lin Hansen]

Hi Izzy,

Good luck with the babies....you are doing a super job.

Linda

[Izzy]

Hi Liz and thank you very much! I'm not sure if I'm doing a super job, but trying my best, I sure appreciate the encouragement. Nice to know I have others to share this experience with.

I'm so happy to know what the crop is now, what a difference it makes, lol! I just fed them again and really paid close attention to what it looked like when I put them back to sleep a few hours ago after they ate. It's quite a noticeable difference now, about 25% of the size it was before, not nearly as plump. It's so amazing you can actually "see" where the food goes, what a really neat thing and so very helpful! I never knew they had things like that, I mean, most animals have stomachs on the 'inside', no way you could tell how full it was, except by squeezing around.

This is now bookmarked as one of my fav places. I was going to put up a couple of pictures, but too lazy to hook my camera up now and want to grab another hour or two of zzz's while I can.

Hope everyone has a great weekend!
Izzy

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Izzy,

Yes, that information is a lot to digest and you really don't need to follow it all to the "T", it's just to give you more detailed info for further down the road. It was taken from a website and not my own instructions. I'm glad you found this site as well as there are lots of very experienced people here. "Marypigeons", and a moderator is one of the best here with lots of experience raising young pigeons from an early age. She recently hand reared two pigeons for me as well since my birds were unfit parents. The poops are a good sign, they will poop more with more food being fed to them and if they are getting enough. Those "HUGE" black circles on their heads IS in fact the entire eyeball. The eye slit is small in comparison. And the slits on the sides of the head, just under the eyes is the ears. Baby pigeons that are getting fed properly will grow REALLY quick so your work will pay off soon. Once the eyes open and when they are a week old or so, you'll notice a huge difference in them size wise and strength wise. At this time you will have a much easier time feeding them and not having to worry so much about hurting them. Well, sounds like you have things under control very well, it's an exhausting job to hand rear any baby creature though. Keep us all posted and someone will try their best to help you out.



Brad

[cyro51]

Hi Izzy,

You are doing very well but orphaned hatchlings are at a big disadvantage, because they need the enzymes produced by their parents in those vital first three days of their life to absorb the nutrients. This is why it is important to make up the recipe I e-mailed you or to use Kaytee Exact. A third alternative is chickcrumbs, soaked in hot (not boiling!) water for half and hour, liquidised, strained three times and served at room temperature. For the first 2 days it should look like weak tea.

It will also help if you can give a probiotic as soon as possible to encourage healthy bacteria. Natural yoghurt has been recommended.

I haven't received the e-mail that you sent me, so please don't think I am ignoring any questions!

Cynthia