DON'T SHOOT OUR BIRDS OF PREY

[JGregg]

When you are allowing your pets or flocks to fly free they are then subject to the dangers of both land and sky. The hawk that takes a pigeon is just trying to survive, and bring food home to the chicks. Birds of prey are an integral part of our various ecosystems, they have an important role in regulating rodent and avian populations. The people that shoot our birds of prey are ignorant. All life deserves respect.

JGregg

[bigbird]

Hello Greg,
Raptors are not the best subject here at Pigeons.com
This is because we see pigeons being killed by these predators.
But, you must know that it is a federal law to injure or kill raptors here in the U.S.A
Offenders can receive tremendous fines for doing harm to raptors.
We know this, and we respect the law.

But on another note, I think that pigeons should also be protected by federal law, just the same as raptors and crows, seagulls and such.

You are concerned for the raptors. We are concerned for the pigeons. And you said that “All life deserves respect”.
So will you join us in our efforts give all life, including pigeons, the respect that all life deserves?
Regards,
Carl

[cyro51]

I love pigeons and would seek to protect them from raptors, but would never support harming another animal nor would I blame a predator for being what it is.

Cynthia



------------------
All beings are fond of themselves, they like pleasure, they hate pain, they shun destruction, they like life and want to live long. To all, life is dear; hence their life should be protected.

-Mahavira

[screamingeagle]

Now I haven't read every post on here as of late, but has anyone ever said anything about shooting birds of prey?? I've never heard anyone even mention such a thing. I have heard of farmers shooting bears, wolves and wild cats because they eat their herds and flocks. But never have I heard of someone shooting an eagle, or hawk or raptor because they were eating their pigeons. I've only heard of people selling off thier pigeons because hawks have moved in, and they don't want to compete with them.

I'll look at the posts again, maybe I totally missed something. But I don't think any animal should be killed because it's hungry. If anything, maybe someone could call a wildlife sanctuary to help relocate the wild bird to a better part of the woods. I've heard of that being done with no problems.

Suzanne

[screamingeagle]

Ok, I found it. One small comment made by roller man. I think a 22 is bit a bit much. We always had animals destroying this and that at my parents house. My dad kept a pellet gun loaded, but not really to kill them, just to scare them off. Although it was strong enough to kill the crows. I think killing them is a bit much. Maybe a small bb gun would do enough to really scare them, but not seriously injure them. Many wild animals don't have anywhere to go but into the city since housing developments are destroying their habbitats. Kind of a tricky issue to address.

[dimondDwings]

Hey Greg,
I have to agree with bigbird and cyro. Its not wise to talk about raptors on this site but that does not mean we hate them. Just as you said, "ALL LIFE DESERVES RESPECT". Well arent our pigeons living creatures? They deserve just as much respect as raptors do. You may not think so, but pigeons have an important role in our various ecosystems as well. I have had birds of prey take some of my pigeons from me but I do not blame them, I wiped my tears away and told myself that they were only trying to survive in the harsh enviroments man has forced them to live in. Like bigbird said, join us and help us give all life the respect it deserves.

------------------
DDW

[mike_m453]

Yes every animal deserves respect yet many people see Pigeons as Rats with wings wich is very untrue.Many of us here respect wildlife just as much as our birds and would never dream of hurting a Raptor.So why does the Pigeon get so little respect?

[tomcass00]

I have a little insight to the endangered species and predation on domestic animals in that my father and I were and are ranchers and my grandfather and I are and were pigeon fanciers
Under the law and its been tried and tested if an endangered predator takes domestic livestock it can be dealt with in a humane manner be it capture and relocation which seldome works or if its euthanasia by whatever means
but when it comes to raptors its a little different although in the case of eagles it has again been tried and proven that when a rancher has losses due to endangered species the rancher has the right to seek a course of action to resolve such losses
be it capture, destroying or other protective measures
raptors enjoy the protection but unless they are doing damage to livestock they cannot be dealt with now the interesting part is that pigeons are livestock in some communities and in some they are livestock if they are raised for consumption whereas pigeons raised for or used in racing and other fancier related platforms are not livestock and have no protections
if an hawk or eagle or predator attacks a human its a danger and can and will be dealt with accordingly BY THE APPROPRIATE AGENCIES
years ago we did shoot cougar, coyote, badger, wolverine and wolf
we never had losses to eagles, eagles dont pick up cattle although they do lambs, if a alligator attacks a human or livestock it to can be destroyed as a bear or any other predator
when we were flying racing pigeons in the 50s and early 60s we did shoot hawks never had cause with eagles again but in the case of hawks chickens are livestock by all definitions and a chicken hawk would meet a shotgun welcome
then the protections were put in place on raptors Problem because along with being a person who believes in nature or a naturalist/environmentalist and a former park ranger I still am a rancher and pigeon fancier so now the deilemma what to do about the hawks
the approach I use is try all alternatives to destroying but there comes a point where no matter what the alternatives are they no longer work and the protections place on the raptors have been so well adhered to that the raptors are now at a level greater than they have everbeen according to the audubon society there has never been as many raptors as there are now meaning the balance of nature has turned and again man in his infinate wisdom in his trying to do the right thing has meddled where he shouldnt have true man was responsible for ddt and its effects on the raptor population
however though I will hesitate to harm any animal preditor or what I after reasonable response will not hesitate to take a more drastic action .

[bigbird]

I am transfering the following post from a topic that has now been deleted. The information below should have been placed in this topic string, started by JGregg instead of being placed into an entirely new topic post.
Thanks,
Carl


From: JGregg
Let's clear up a couple of questions from my last post "Don't Shoot Our Birds of Prey". I have pet pigeons, and have had them for the last fifteen years (my two boys are Acid and Hicken Sop). I do not fly flocks,or allow my pets to venture outside unless I am outside with them. I simply do not want my babies to get hurt, in any way. Of course I think a pigeon's life is worthwhile. I've got hefty Vet bills & my 10 yr old pigeon (Acid) is diabetic! I also transport baby pigeons 40 miles from a "bird rescue center" which puts them down (a center that puts healthy birds of ANY species down is not a rescue center) to one that doesn't put them down. In addition I take money out of my pocket to pay for the baby's care.
Now that I have established that I love pigeons let me state that I ALSO love birds of prey. Yes, such a thing is possible! I've raised birds of prey as well as various native and feral species. I continue to love raptors even though a Cooper's Hawk attacked one of the pigeons I raised in front of me. The pigeon (my baby!) died in my mother's arms as she tried to stop the bleeding. It would be silly if I started to hate raptors. I'll put this into another context. If your cousin was killed by a car, would you start hateing cars and those who drive them? I don't think you would. Without a logical basis hatred is unessisary.
I love ALL birds!
Time for me to get off of the soap box.

JGregg

[cyro51]

Thank you for clarifying your position regarding pigeons. You are obvioulsy a dedicated pigeon person with lods of comapssion.

There was recently a bit of tension on this site over whether racoons that break into lofts and kill the birds should be kllled, which is why we are reluctant to discuss a similar subject. But you also deserve the courtesy of a reply.

You are not alone in recognizing that loving pigeons and loving the creatures that would prey on them is natural. There are members on this site who rescue raptors too. and that love them dearly.

I feed a feral flock and there is a feral cat that lurks in the bushes as I feed them. plainly wanting some supper. I love cats and I love pigeons. So I look out for the cat and feed the pigeons well away from the bushes. I also provide the occasional tray of cat food for it. If that cat catches and kills one of "my" pigeos while the are eating and vulerable it will be my fault. Similary if I let my pigeons fly free and they were attacked by a hawk I would have to accpet the responsibilty for that death, not throw it on the hawk.

The only predator that I blame entirely for being what he is is man.

Admitedly there are people that would like to shoot me because I feed the pigeons and the feeling is reciprocal. But that is a different story!


So, now tell us about your diabetic pigeon and the santuary that doesn't euthanaze
pigeons just because of what they are.

Cynthia

[dimondDwings]

Greg,
I hope you will accept my apology for coming down on you the way I did. I did not know that you had pigeons and cared for them deeply therefor causing some tension. I know where you stand now and respect this position for I also am a BIRD LOVER and have raised numerous species, ferals as well. Me and you are in the same mix as for many others on this site, I had a hawk take one of my birds away from me but I did not blame the hawk.

Animals should not be killed for their actions. They are simply just trying to survive on what little us humans have left for them.

------------------
DDW

[RollerMan64]

Should I make a reply ???????????

[RollerMan64]

Do you Guys think that a Pigeon should be kept in a cage all its life, and not be able
to fly??????????????????????????????? I think that's BS!!!! Pigeons are creatures of the Sky and should fly. I only raise flying breeds and will not put up with a predator
killing my babies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I am their Soul Protector and will do what ever
it takes to keep them from harm while in the loft or in the sky, That's the way I see it and will never change. I don't hunt down every Predator, But when they come calling for a feed on my pets and livestock they are trouble looking for trouble and I will take any means to despose of the problem. ENUFF SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the Infamous RollerMan!!!

[dimondDwings]

I see where your coming form rollerman. I have chickens and ducks and last summer I had 34 chicks and 2 clutches of ducklings hatch out and one single hawk killed them all. This hawk, really really made me mad to where I almost was going to kill it. But my new buddy smokey, who is a crow that I raised keeps all the hawks away.

------------------
DDW

[JGregg]

I don't know if I should reply. It seems to me that some people overuse their puncuation keys and guns, but neglect to use any reasoning. Yep, ignorance is expensive! All I have to say is that I'm glad I'm not you.

The bird rescue center in San Rafael takes pigeons without putting them down. I give them about 10-20 dollars per bird I drop off.

Ground up alfalfa (you can get it in a health food store) can be used to stimulate the production of the insulin homologe in avians. Acid (my 10, soon to be 11 yr old pigeon) is diabetic for maybe three months out of the year, and normal the rest of the time. I don't think that he is truly diabetic, he just has a condition. My theory is that his condition has a viral or bacterial trigger.