Need help/advice, Legal to keep ferals or not?

[Hambone]

Wow , I'm glad I live out here in the sticks

Typical example of governments gone nuts ! I'm going to upset people again , but how do you live back east ??? They want to control and regulate everything . You try to do a good deed and look what happens , of course they know whats best for the people . Come out west ! You can still be halfway free , at least in some parts .

Chicago as an example , its illegal to keep pigeons there from what I understand . With all the crime there ( and they are among the top in the nation ) .... and they hassle people with pigeons .

And NYC , I wont even touch that one .

And I read the posts from England ... where the "councils" fence in birds and let them starve . With exit traps that dont work . Maybe its time to go to the hardware store for some bolt cutters .

I know , I know .... no politics on the forum , and I didnt even address your question , but these kinds of things upset me .

It sounds like the cop was cool though , just doing what he had to do . He kind of clued you in on who to be careful of too.

Hambone

[Victor]

Moxie, my heart goes out to you and the sitution you are in. It worries me

that if your landlord finds out you have not one but 3 or 4 pigoens you may

be asked to leave. I am sure you know that I have 8 pet pigeons and they

are part of my life, but they can be a handful.


When I had only 6 they were kept inside, The feathers, dander, and the

overspill of poop and seeds was hard to keep up with not to mention how

vocal they can be. I knew that it was not healthy for them nor for my family

and I to keep them caged and allow them to fly in the house for exercise

which is vital for their health and well being. When I just had Tooter it was

easy, then when I temporarily lost him, and was gifted Beaksley, Roscoe, and

Uchiwa I found that 3 pigeons in a house was difficult. After much thought it

was time to build them a pigeon coop which I did and just last year I added a

flight pen. You live in an apartment and I know this is not possible but it is

your home. If they find out you have pigeons you are for sure going to be

displaced.I doubt if your apartment mananger will take kindly to you keeping

pigeons (maybe one you might) but not 3 or 4. People that dislke our

wonderful pigeons are all around. I have beeen lucky so far even though I

have my own home and a small piece of land. All it would take is for one new

neighbor to file a complain and my world would turn upside down. Maybe

finding homes for the three and arranging to keep one would be agreeable

with your apartment owner/manager? I wish I had a better answer for you,

but this is all I have to offer. I hope it works out for you.

[jbangelfish]

Originally Posted by xxmoxiexx

yes, i think people in Boston are just quicker to tell you their REAL opinion, which can be good at times. Other times you'd rather not hear it! I do like Boston for a lot of things, and one thing in Boston, people will always tell you to your FACE what they think of you, not as much behind your back!
But, generally, people are the same everywhere, like you said Charis. The basic attitude, and culture i guess you could call it, is a bit different...

Don't worry, I have many friends from the Boston area and once I knew them, I cared about them as much as anyone else.

I'm just not very fond of what I call "big city mentality" and you can get the same treatment in Chicago or New York or probably any other big city. Rude behavior in driving and rude behavior to others seems all too commonplace. I grew up on a farm, so I guess that makes me a country bumpkin and I'm perfectly happy that way.

I drove to Boston when I was 18 years old, to pick up my sister, who had lived there for 2 years after high school. My mother had made the trip with me. I was in Cambridge at about 2AM, looking for an address, which I could not find. I found the right intersection of streets but not the correct address. Anyway, I had driven around the area long enough to attract the attention of a local police officer and he wanted to know what I was doing. I told him the address that I was looking for and it turned out that I was in the wrong city. I asked him which way to go and he pointed and said "that way, now get the F.... outta here". I thought that was rather rude for a police officer, in front of my mother and all.

We eventually found my sister, thanks to the kind officer's directions. When we were getting ready to leave, the battery in my car had died so we called a tow truck to come and give us a boost. I was standing on the street with the hood of my car up, in front of the address that we told them to go to. The tow truck driver drove on by with me scratching my head. He came back and asked "what do I look like, a F...ing mind reader"?. I kinda thought that me having the only car on the street with the hood up and me looking under it might have been a dead giveaway. I guess I'm just an ignorant country boy.

Bill

[Jaye]

Hi.

First off, Mox...when you say you are gonna get rid of the injured one...what do you mean ? Please, don't have it euthanised...let us find a forum member in your area to take it.

These kinda stories make me very mad...and disappointed as well. It is one thing for folks to have a vested interest in something, and another for them to go out of their way to hassle soemone who is causing them no direct effect.

OK...venting done....here are my suggestions, in order of importance:

La Ley:

1) Find out: does your city...Boston, yes ?...have an ordinance that it is illegal to feed pigeons ?

If not....then that's good and you can use this as a standard reply to anyone.

If so...either cut back in your feeding...stagger the times of your feedings...gradually change the location of your feedings (they'll catch on quick ~ the pidgies, that is) or something like this.

2) Likewise, is there a civil or criminal code on taking in an injured feral ? Find that out, too.

3) Also check the law whether a license is required to keep 'Doves' (because, as we all know, what you have are Rock Doves). There probably isn't...I'd be surprised if there was.

All of this law stuff, research...you can probably can do this online, or by calling an SPCA. Write down the specific ordinance/code number, if there is one, as well.

The written ordinance may not exactly read the way people generally (mis)interpret it to read, also.

Regarding what your vet says....keep in mind there may be a difference between laws pertaining to "keeping of wildlife" and laws pertaining to "keeping of pigeons"...as in many cities, pigeons aren't exactly considered wildlife....odd, but true.

Do the research starting where I suggested.




Next:

Relax...you aren't going to get evicted tom'w...or next month...or next Fall. Municipal Animal "control" depts in urban areas, as the infrastructure keeps getting choked year after year....they hardly respond quickly to even more acute situations.



Now...with all that said, let's consider this an "opportunity" as opposed to a "setback".
The likelihood that someone (maybe a neighbor) may snitch on you to your landlord is a reality...so think up a response now. I liked yours...

1) You found an injured dove, you took it in temporarily, and you are going to take it to a wildlife rehab shortly (get the name of a particular rehab place nearby).

2) I like Charis' ~ these aren't wild, they are pets belonging to a friend, and you are just pet-sitting... (there MUST be at least ONE person you know locally who can fib for you on this...although I doubt it'd need to come to that). If you really ahve nobody...then here's a callout to MA forum members....to help out w/ a white lie.
Put on temporary bands.

Worst case, you will be asked to get them out of your place. So you can do this, taking your time. Again....if necessary...I am sure we can find some forum members in your area to provide a foster home.

3) Then.....when the semester's over...start apartment-hunting again. Most apt's have rules of no pets...but this often means dogs or cats. If you ask them...how about a bird ?...then they reply...what kind ? then you reply...ONE beautiful Dove ? They reply...is it loud ?...you reply ....it softly coos, y'know ? etc., etc....this is how you find something. You find it, you move in...and then your one dove becomes three, with nobody the wiser. If you ever get called on it (highly unlikely, since pidgies ARE quiet), just play innocent and "gee whiz, sorry" and it'll all blow over....

Keep us posted and good luck.

[KIPPY]

Put some snap bands on yours and will call them something fancy.

That would be a good idea.

Do you feed these guys where people can see you? if so I would move location. What about time of feeding? I would feed them at the crack of dawn when everyone is sleeping or busy getting ready for work. You need to get the attention drawn away from you and the pigeons. Definately wouldn't be putting a pigeon in the window if you can see it from the street.

but generally i think people are a lot meaner here

there everywhere. You just got to figure out how to deal with them.

Typical example of governments gone nuts !

They want to control and regulate everything .

and citizens pushing for this stuff. They just keep giving them more and more control, it makes me sick.

[amoonswirl]

Hi Moxie,
I have some snap on bands if you need any. Let me know!
I'm sure if you claim they are fancy pigeons or racing pigeons nobody would know the difference, especially if they are banded.

Also if you need a place to stash them if an inspector comes, I can drive over with a dog crate or something. For a temporary situation it could hold a bunch of them...even overnight.

You still have my # right? Give me a call! (or PM me if you lost the #)

I know what you mean about being nervous they'll take your birds away...
I ended up putting some privacy plastic over the windows in my aviary that look like "stained glass" because the pigeons were hanging out in the windowsills and I didn't want the neighbors to report me. But I am getting a coop/flight pen built this summer for the same reasons that Victor mentions -the dander is pretty bad even with the windows open and my husband's allergies have been acting up. Plus, with a coop I can get a permit and go legit. (the laws in my city say the coop can not be attached to a dwelling so the porch is a no-no if anyone reports me)

Anyway - give me a call if I can help...

[xxmoxiexx]

ok, i'm gonna ask some of my friends to fib for me, and educate them a bit, so that way if this ever happens they;ll know how many birds "they have!"
Yes, i didnt realize that you could see the bird so visible from the street, it is in a cage, a cat carrier, you really have to LOOK to see him.
Oops, i didnt mean get rid of in that sense, i meant get rid of like release. I have a vet appointment tomorrow for him. I'm gonna get the OK from the vet first.
Jaye, there IS a city ordinance against feeding, $300 fine! It is called the "wild birds ordinance," and pigeons, seagulls, starlings, everything is included. It has been in effect for over a year, i didnt even know it was happening, just found out after it had passed. Or i would of done SOMETHING!
I am probably being over-cautious, (paranoid?) but i didnt EVER think people would care as much as they have, even the cop said he was surprised with how these people complained, how often i mean.
I have to go to school now, i will write more later.

[Jaye]

hehehe....OK, Mox...i didn't figure you meant it that way, anyway....

Yeah, believe it or not...out here in SF the same law was created about 8 years ago...can you believe it ? The city fo St. Francis and all....hmmm...someone musta missed something.
Although I think the one here specifies just pigeons..not sparrows, starlings, 'gulls, and the like....that Boston one is severe....ridiculous...illegal to feed a wild bird.


Don't worry too much about it....I feed my friends daily and the likelihood of ever being cited is zero. And if ever an officer or animal care/control person came to my door...I would just play dumb....deny I ever fed any birds, and that'd be that.

Whatever the code or law on the books...you cannot be cited because someone complained that they witnessed you feeding pigeons. That, in and of itself, is insufficient 'cause' for being cited (my GF is about to graduate law school). You'd have to be caught red-handed, so to speak.

Take your time with things....get some of those legbands and put 'em in you kitchen drawer in case...don't feed the ferals in the exact same location....make yourself and your pidgies less visually obvious for a couple of weeks...and folks will find something else to obsess over.

[DEEJAY7950]

Originally Posted by EgypSwiftLady

I'm sorry for all your troubles and wish I could help but I live in WI.

They way I understand the laws it goes city/town, township or county and then state. In other words it all depends on where you live as to those "laws" stating what you can and cannot keep, but even if you passed all those it still seems to be against your rental contract to keep your pigeons.
I just took in a pigeon that a very nice couple couldn't keep because the suburb they resided in it is not lawful to keep pigeons. just to give you an idea.

Hope this helps.

Isn't it amazing that these laws are made without people voting for or against them, sort of reminds me of a little incident we had some time ago--- something about -- taxation without representation, makes me sick to think a small group of people can tell others how to live their lives and what they can do or can't do in the pursuit of happiness! These rights shall not be infringed! As far as I'm concerned the only VALID LAWS are those TEN COMMANMENTS!

[KIPPY]

As far as I'm concerned the only VALID LAWS are those TEN COMMANMENTS!

Amen to that!

[maryjane]

Leg bands are a very good idea, I also have extras (they're "hot pink" lol) if you need, let me know and I will send them out to you immediately. You are welcome to say they are my pigeons but I don't know how well that would go over since I'm over here in CA lol. Fortunately there is no huge difference between some "domestic" pigeons and ferals, so there is no way for them to prove that you have ferals if they do start bothering you.

I know how you feel, I used to keep pigeons (and other critters) in my apartments when I was only supposed to have my dog and a few cats. It made for VERY stressful living, always worrying about the manager finding out, and once I had a nasty neighbor threatening to call the animal control when I first started keeping pigeons. At that time I didn't know I was allowed to have pigeons in the city I was in, and I was pretty freaked out. It never happened though. I'm sorry you're going though this. As long as they are in cages if anyone should drop in, and they are banded, that should make a difference. I know a lot of managers consider "caged animals" to not really "count" as pets, I don't know how your manager feels about it. Good luck with all of this.

[ND Cooper]

I would first get a copy of your cities Animal control and licenses-Animal control and protection laws. Then you know where you stand. If you feel that uncomfortable going down there, have a friend go for you. (it's worth it)
At the time I had to educate some of my neighbors. (They didn't know the law either)
Read your lease agreement, If you don't have one, get one ,or have a friend inquire about living there, they should be able to get a copy. This is so you know exactly where you stand, so if a stranger tells you something wrong, you know.
In my experiances, the animal control officer is either trying to get a job as a regular police officer, or they did something wrong (got demoted, for a while) [Meter maid duty for 6 mos.] Animal control is either a real police officer, or the job is contracted out from the Police Dept.
With the cat, you were doing his job for him, and maybe a higher up (in the dept.) saw that, and railed on him to do his job! Know wonder they are such cheery people!
The police officer is going to be friendly (public relations) untill it's time to fine you, if that's the case. Again you will all ready know the law, if you have the city copy.
If it turns out that you are doing something wrong, you might want to stop.
I have had to change my living circumstances, untill conditions were right, not only leagly, but better for the pets, also.
Good luck!