Nesting???

[KIPPY]

Fake wooden eggs! You can use those to replace the real eggs. They have them at Jedds. I have 2 egg laying females but I still use the wooden eggs sometimes.

[zoo keeper]

I think I am feeling sorry for zig here, all these post make it sound like you cant teach 3 month old birds to be homers, but yet I have my birds that are the same age as zigzag's birds and it was done. When I was getting ready to teach mine, I was told to tape feathers, pull out flight feathers, cut flight feathers, put soap on feathers, put a pony tail holder around a wing, about every weird thing I could have ever imagine hearing. Then I ran across a lady who took the time to work with me and she did say they were strong winged at 3 months but just teach them to trap and I should be fine. I spent 3 weeks teaching them to trap well, I put them out in the Avery for hours a day so they could see the sky and their surroundings. The first day I let them out on the landing board with the Avery off they did not fly off, they were much to scared. They sat there and shook, then finally went to the roof and the neighbors roof, looked around and them came home. I only ended up losing one bird. I started with 21 and now have 20. I have been letting them fly since September 20. I think I said on an earlier post, as new flyers no one will sell you birds that are four weeks old. I spent all summer trying and you just cant get them. Everyone would say 4 week old birds are to young to make a shipping trip, but everyone did have birds 8 weeks or older that would be fine to ship. I was so depressed when people were saying I could not teach these birds after spending $400 on birds. It has all been fine. I also let all my birds out the first day. Every one of them. I figured I bought them to fly and I would have to take the chance. I figured I had a better chance of not losing them if I let them all out because maybe if one was lost it might see its buddies and follow them home. Mine are doing great. They are starting to range and they all come back every day they fly. I think that if experienced pigeon people want new people to love and care for pigeons then people either need to sell younger birds, work more with those of us who are just getting started, give words of encouragement, not just say you will lose them, and they need to be prisoners because they are 3 months old. Sorry again if I stepped on toes. I am just feeling bad for zig because I went though the same thing, all I was told was so depressing statements. I know how zigzag man feels, I was there all summer and then had to end up getting the same age birds as zigzag did. I think this is a note to zig so he knows it is possible with good results.

[Motherlodelofts]

Someone wanted advice so I gave it. I breed and train 100 plus young birds a year and yes some are strong on the wing until I have that particular team built and at this stage they are easier to loose when strong on the wing. The main thing is that they know the sound of the feed can and are familular with their outside surroundings. Personally I never tape the wings of young birds as it is hard for them to loose sight of the loft here but at time's I am holding my breath when the strong one's are up for the first time. Never do you push them up , you let them do it on their own. If I settle any oldbirds their wing (one only) would get taped until they knew the outside of the loft and their way back in , and that is just how it is done. I raise Birmingham Rollers and settling old bird homers doesn't apply here but Y/Bs would be handled the same way. Now one other thing, and that is the winged killers of the sky. It is a bad time be training or settling pigeons as their chances of not getting sliced and diced is getting slimmer and slimmer as the days shorten. at the very least the last thing that you want is youngsters that are just learning what their wings are for spread all over the country side by an attack. Hope this helps

[ZigZagMarquis]

WWCa, Re Lee, MotherLoad,

Don't get me wrong, I apprecieate the input.

Okay... this is what I'm doing.

1) My birds get fed in the morning and in the evening... half their daily ration of 1oz per per bird per feeding. When I put the feed out, I whistle and shake the feeder and put it down for 20 - 30 minutes and then the feeder comes up and they don't get any more feed until next meal time.

2) During the day, I leave the trap "open" so they can go out onto the landing board; which is enclosed, but has another larger hinged door that I can open if / when I fly them.

3) My evening routine is to scrape and sweep the loft, R&R the water in their waterers. Then I close the trap to the landing boad. Then the fun starts, I catch them and put them out on the landing board / trap. I let them settle a bit, but they've figured how to come back through the trap and will trap in if I leave them alone long enough. I then go get their "dinner" and bring it out and whistle and shake the can for a minute or so and then I put it down and back quietly into one corner of the loft... they'll trap in and "chow down."

--------- If I were to fly them ------------

If I were to fly them come some day... in my mind, still another month to two off if it were to happen...

4) I would probably give them half of what I normally do for breakfast on Day -1, no dinner on Day -1, the next morning (D-Day) I'd catch them and put them out onto the landing board... stay in the loft so they don't trap in... let them settle for a bit and then open the landing board... if any "flew off", I'd try to keep an eye on them and then start calling them back after maybe just 5 minutes or less... i.e. wistle and shake their feeder.

4a) ... I might even make sure they're MORE HUNGRY by no feed the at all the day before and only half a dinner two days before... and before I get to all that... I'm working on getting them to come down to eat when I just whitle and shake the can... so back up in 1, 2, 3... I'd like to get to the point where I can come out into the loft with the feeder, whistle, shake and have them come down, or trap in, and be at my feet saying "OKAY! Give us the food NOW!" before progressing to 4.


Okay... have at it "shoot holes" in that plan... seriously, I want to know what to do right and even more so, I want to know what NOT to do.

[Motherlodelofts]

Zig feeding once a day is plenty for all except when you first wean them. It sounds like you have a fly pen outside of your trap where they can see the suroundings, is this correct ? if this is so and they've been out there a week or so then it's time to open the door. don't push them out, let them feel their own way out. If a couple are slow after a couple of days set them on top of the loft. Don't feed the day before you release and if you are going to do it now is the time to get them up so that they can get some wing time before the killers move in. remember that anytime you cut youngsters out for the first time there is a chance of losses and the longer you wait the stronger they get, this is no big deal as their home is the loft and you will learn how to handle Y/B s in no time , just use common sence

[re lee]

No holes in your plan. If it works fine. They are your birds. And you make your plan . The birds learn or leave. Hopefuly they stay. GOOD luck keep with it.

[WhiteWingsCa]

Originally Posted by zoo keeper

I think I am feeling sorry for zig here, all these post make it sound like you cant teach 3 month old birds to be homers, . . . . . ..... I think I said on an earlier post, as new flyers no one will sell you birds that are four weeks old. I spent all summer trying and you just cant get them. Everyone would say 4 week old birds are to young to make a shipping trip, but everyone did have birds 8 weeks or older that would be fine to ship......... I think this is a note to zig so he knows it is possible with good results.

I never said you CAN'T teach 3 month olds to train to a new loft. It's just not that easy, and the risk of loss is much higher than if you start with younger birds. If you have a bird you really really want to keep, you want to think long and hard before you let it out.

As to no one selling you 4 week old birds --- guess it just depends on who you contact, and where you live. Up here, if you're just starting out, you can fill your loft in about a week... just let people know you're interested!

Of course, it does have to be during breeding season -- finding youngsters (homers) after June of any given year is much harder -- unless you contact a breeder and ask them to specifically raise a round for you (Good breeders will do that for you)

As to anyone saying that 4 week olds can be shipped... that's bunk. Unless it's over the very hot summer month, they ship just as well as any older bird. There are "money races" held all over North America every year -- and ALL the birds shipped to those races are 4-5 weeks old. They are shipped clear across the country, with little to no problems. I'd have to guess that thouands of 4-5 week old youngsters are shipped each and every year.

If someone is telling you that 4 weeks is "too young"... it's because they have a bunch of older birds they're trying to unload, and figure that if you're desperate, you'll take them....

Buying youngsters (homers) is a really big "buyer beware" market. The number of 'feather merchants' out there is growing.... it's almost as bad as puppy mills, IMHO.

[zoo keeper]

I guess it is good to know that people will ship 4 week old birds. I was extremely frustrated this spring and summer. I absolutely could not find anyone to ship me young birds. I ended up buying these birds that were 8-10-12 week old. Not really sure. I paid for 24, received 23, two died two days later. Left me with 21, one got lost the first week, left me with 20. As a new flyer, first off, I got dumped on in June. I was told I was buying 4 homers and I got high flyers. Then no one would ship young birds. I really had a bad experience getting started. I did not even know I had high flyers until I was trying to get ready to home them. I still have my four high flyers who are prisoners. It is really sad. They are very sweet and come to me and let me pick them up. Absolutely sweet birds, but they will never fly. They dont even have a loft because I cant mix them with my homers. I am preparing to make another loft which half will be dedicated to them. I know they will be happy to have more room. For now they live in one of those chain link dog kennels. So I am sorry if I stepped on toes, I surely did not mean to. I guess it is because I had such a hard time getting started and then being sold high flyers knowing those were not homers, then no one willing to help me get started, then having to be sold older birds, and most off then being told it could not be done. I am ever so thankful to the one lady who talked me though all this and made it a neat experience in the end. My mentor calls me every week, emails, will be traveling to teach me how to vaccinate my birds in two weeks, really a neat lady. Back to being sold High flyers. When I finally figured out I had high flyers, I called that man back and specifically asked him if the birds he sold me were homers or high flyers and he said high flyers. I then asked him whey he told me in June they were homers. His response was this......homers -- high flyers, they are pigeons. OK so I guess you can see why I started out so frustrated. There are a lot of people who take advantage or discourage new pigeon lovers.

[re lee]

You hit that right. racing homers alot of times is sold on peddigree. And that will not make them good. Eveery breed breeds culls. More then good ones. And alot of people sell paper. For a good price. The only way to be sure to get a decent flying racer . Is to by proven birds. Old birds. that have been raced and there race record Speaks for its. self. And then alot of time a high price is asked. But like I say A 2 dollar bird can do good. It takes awhile to build a family of birds. And that is where good ones are raised. But alot of people are willing to help new comers to the sport for free.

[Motherlodelofts]

Lee good post and I would say that this holds true with all breeds and certainly holds true with Birmingham Rollers also.

[re lee]

Not all breeds. Flying birds ,they only show what they have when flying. the bird can look good, but not be able to produce or fly good. A show bird. well They can be seen for what they carry in points. Some show birds must perform also. That can be seen. So a person will know mostly what they are getting. And yes they to produce culls. that will not be show quality. Or useable stock birds. A good breeder will not sell them as such. perhaps just give them away as a hobby bird. As a rule just a small amount raised each year are good birds. And the others are birds. Hepling a new comer or an other breeder. Means selling a bird you would be willing to use your self. The hobby improves. Now fliying people sometimes will not sell birds to local flyers. And thats because you then have to compete with your own birds. As long as people buy birds that do not help them they will be out there for sell. But most good breeders will not do this.

[Motherlodelofts]

Good point Lee. That is as long as who ever is trying to aquire a particular show breed knows what a "good" one is. I know where I would go if my loft burnt down. Most don't have a clue where to start when new. Just a thought. I only have one breed on the property and it's a flying breed.

[WhiteWingsCa]

Originally Posted by zoo keeper

I guess it is good to know that people will ship 4 week old birds. I was extremely frustrated this spring and summer. I absolutely could not find anyone to ship me young birds. I ended up buying these birds that were 8-10-12 week old. Not really sure. I paid for 24, received 23, two died two days later. Left me with 21, one got lost the first week, left me with 20. As a new flyer, first off, I got dumped on in June. I was told I was buying 4 homers and I got high flyers. Then no one would ship young birds. I really had a bad experience getting started.......... .................. OK so I guess you can see why I started out so frustrated. There are a lot of people who take advantage or discourage new pigeon lovers.

No toes stepped on here.....

Your story is, unfortunately, a common one.

It angers me to see someone taken advantage of, as you, and others, have been, when trying to get birds.

That you still have 20 of the birds left (16 homers, if I read right?) is pretty good, considering. I have heard stories of people losing many more than that when they try to let out 'older' Young Birds though... which is why I encourage anyone who is trying it to think long and hard about it first.

I don't know if the folks in my area are so different from other areas, or if we were just incredibly lucky when we first 'got into' birds. We had tons of help from several people, who did everything from finding us a loft for sale, helping move it onto our property, gave us YB's to race the first two years (and would have given us more, but we declined... ).

We've turned around and helped others in our area with their first birds too. Our club is competitive, yes, but no one gives someone new "culls" --- after all, we all know how the new guys do in the races, and where they got their birds.... it 'Proves' your stock, if someone else is flying them, and is doing well with them. Our members exchange birds -- youngsters and breeding stock... regularly.

Our combine members contribute birds to a 4H program -- including helping build small beginner lofts, and mentoring young folk. The CU (Canadian Racing Pigeon Union) promotes the sport... and encourages the members to do so.

I'm pretty sure that at one time, the AU had some sort of promotion of the sport going on -- including a mentoring program? If they don't, it's too bad.

[zoo keeper]

Well, I have two sets of birds. I have the high flyers that were supposed to be homing pigeons, but were not. That man took me for a ride. I still have them, there are four of them.

Next I bought the high flyers that were somewhere around 3 months old or so. Not completely sure. I paid for 24, received 23, 2 died two days later and I lost one the first day I flew them. That has left me with 20 birds. I was actually very impressed to have only lost one so far. I do have the injured bird now from the cat incident . I am very sad over that. I dont know what its fate will be, as it has a large area with no skin, but it is real clean, just no skin. I would imagine it will live since it has been four days and it is not draining at all and is walking, eating and drinking. It just is a big wound for a bird.

[Motherlodelofts]

Zoo Keep , these birds are super tough as long as they are healthy and you will be surprised as to how fast they will heal up from wounds, broken bones , you name it. As for new people buying birds my advise is allways the same, and that is to steer clear of those that advertise selling birds and educate yourself on what you want and who's out there with the goods. If you are just looking for pigeons well then that is a different story. And try to get your birds from one loft as birds from many lofts generally leave you with health problems until everything balances out and immunitys all get on the same page.
Scott