Nesting???

[ZigZagMarquis]

Okay... one of my birds... the Red Check, which I think is a hen, has taken to sitting in one of the nest boxes I have on the only nest bowl I currently have. I really have no idea how old these birds are and I haven't seen any "pigeon porn" going on... ... but should I put out nesting materials??

What ya think??

[Lovebirds]

Yes, put out some nesting material. Even if they don't lay eggs right away, they will "play" house and build a nest and it gives them something to do. We keep nesting material in our YB loft as soon as I see them "noticing" the opposite sex. Some lay eggs but most the pretend.

[ZigZagMarquis]

Well... I haven't really noticed them "noticing" the opposite sex... ... geeze, how do pigeons mate anyways?

Um, I guress I'll put some nesting materials out... I have some tabacco stems... and see if / what they do with it.

[ZigZagMarquis]

... okay, no sooner to I post that, then I look out into the loft and TWO of the one that I think are cocks are preening and billing with the Red Check, that I think is a hen...

Maybe I should put on a Barry White CD for them and leave them alone??

[Lovebirds]

No, it's much more fun to watch!! LOL You asked how they mate.......well, you'll know it when you see it. Seriously though, it is really neat to just sit and watch them. If you sit still long enough, they will begin to either ignore you or they will come to investigate this "thing" in their loft. Most of my birds are not tame by any stretch, but if I go sit in the loft with out moving or making noise, most of them will come over to me and sit on my shoulder or play with my shoestrings or just peck around on my legs........it's pretty cool.

[re lee]

Went back and looked at your pictures. I would say the birds are say 3 to 3/12 months old. The one you are calling a red check Is more a mealy bar in color. I would not let them nest at this age. And if its a hen probably would lay this young yet.

[zoo keeper]

I think zigs and my birds are the same age. Now I have not seen any porn in my loft yet, but I do have 24 nest boxes and they rest in them some times. Now as far as my high flyers go. Well it is a blast to watch. I have watched alfalfa do his .... "I think I am in LOVE with YOU baby dance to Darla a few times, well I guess and a bit more . It is funny and cool and neat to listen to. OK I am sick. I not sick the pigeons are the most exciting things in my life. How can you tell how old they are by looking at pics? And how old are they when they mate? I dont know how old my high flyers are, I just know they are fertile and know what to do.

[ZigZagMarquis]

Originally Posted by re lee

Went back and looked at your pictures. I would say the birds are say 3 to 3/12 months old. The one you are calling a red check Is more a mealy bar in color. I would not let them nest at this age. And if its a hen probably would lay this young yet.

re lee,

So you think they're about 3 to 3 1/2 months old? Ditto to what ZK said... what are you seeing in the pics that makes you think that? Okay, so at 3 to 3.5 months, they're not old enough to mate... that's more like at 6 to 8, right? But why would letting them nest at this age be bad?

Also, I think it was you who said these birds are probably too old to break to my loft and ever let fly... but other's have said keep them in for 3 months and then fly them or let them raise a round of young first and then no matter how old they are or how strong of wing, they'll come home.

[WhiteWingsCa]

I did mention about keeping these birds in once before. At 3 to 3-1/2 months, they are very wing strong... and will take off into the wind, perhaps never to be seen again.

Yes, SOMETIMES trying to 'break' birds to a loft is a little more successful if they have a mate and babies.

HOWEVER..... if they still have youngsters in the nest when you let them out, and they don't return... what would you do?

If you lost one of a pair.... you now have a bird without a mate.

It's up to you to decide what to do... but you do have to be prepared for the concequences.

We tried to 'break' a bird to our loft. We got him at about 8 months of age. We kept him as a breeder for two years... then tried letting him out. He promptly returned to his 'old' home.... even with a mate and nest in our loft.

Fortunately, the 'old' home wasn't far from us. The guy who used to own the bird didn't have birds any more... the loft was now a garden shed. He came outside to find the bird sitting on the ground outside the door, looking at him as if to say "well? Are you going to open this up for me or what?".

He opened the door -- the bird walked right in, like he'd been living there for the past two years, not at our place.

Needless to say -- we don't let him out anymore! LOL

We've had birds come back home 9-10 months after being 'lost' (obviously, someone had tried to keep them). We know someone who had a bird return after seven YEARS. We've also heard stories of birds who've never been out of their loft being sold as 2-3 month old babies -- and finding their way back to the 'birth' loft -- over a hundred miles away.

We've lost youngsters raised in our loft, because we didn't let them out until they were 7-8 weeks old (due to bad weather). If you really want to keep these birds, you have to think long and hard about how badly you want to let them out.

[WhiteWingsCa]

Originally Posted by ZigZagMarquis

Okay, so at 3 to 3.5 months, they're not old enough to mate... that's more like at 6 to 8, right? But why would letting them nest at this age be bad?

For one thing.... they are still growing themselves. To go through the process of laying (for the hen), then raising babies, they are using energy that is better for them to use to finish growing up.

Even if you don't let them hatch the eggs... the hen would just lay right away again, depleting the calcium she needs to grow strong herself.

And.... at 6-8 months of age, pigeons can and will mate and lay eggs... but, like teenagers (which they still are then), they don't always make good parents. They often abandon the nest before the eggs hatch... or worse, right after. Or, they'll feed the babies for a week or two, THEN abandon them.

This has happened to us often enough that we rarely ever let our birds raise youngsters until their second year, or we will try and mate an older bird with a younger one.

[ZigZagMarquis]

WWCa,

Thanks for the words of advise, but I have to admit, they sound rather depressing.

What I'm hearing from you is... 1) These birds shoud remian prisoner?... 2) Don't let them breed until they are at least over a year old?!?

I really don't have the space to split the loft between cocks and hens... heck!... I don't even know which are which at this point... I've got a guess, but even you'all experts can't really tell for sure until the eggs start coming!

I suppose that I'll let them fly someday... it will at least be a month, maybe more like 2 to 3. If it doesn't work out, it won't be the first bad decission I ever made and it probably won't ever be the last...

Anyway... WWCa, you say you lost birds that you let out at 7 to 8 weeks of age... everything being perfect, how old are your birds when you first let them out then?

[zoo keeper]

My birds were around 8 weeks or maybe older when I got them. They were cooing not squeaking and looked rather good size. I would guess they were between 2 and 3 months old. I trapped them almost daily on the settling board with the Avery over them for 3 weeks. When I knew they knew the sound of the noise can when it was feeding time and trapped in well, I mentally prepared myself that the next day would be the day to remove the Avery off the settling board knowing they were strong winged and may fly away. I started with 21 birds and after 3 weeks of letting them fly I still have 20 birds. They had seen their surroundings for a month and I just went for it. I have not had a problem with the strong wing thing. They dont even land on the neighbors roofs. They did the first two days, now they land on my roof then fly down to the settling board and trap in. I think for those who are getting into pigeon keeping for the first time it is difficult to find babies that are only 28 days old to start training. I looked for 3 months and gave up. I finally bought these birds which were older than 2 months and I followed my mentor step by step and it has worked out. Just my experience. Not trying to step on anyone else's advice here.

[re lee]

Looking at the Pictures. I looked at the wattle. the eye. The feet. THe head The body size And the feathering. Not seeing the exact eye color. But near. The color of the wattle. This is how I came up to think the birds were around 3 to 3 1/2 months old. Eye colr is starting to come in. Wattle is turning white. But not full at this time. And the blue check pied looks as it may be a cock bird. The mealy bar. That color will be easy to guess. A red check or mealy bar if they are a cock most allways will develop black flakes thru the wing flights and tail feathers. Hens do not. You will notice all the birds coo some. But cocks as they mature will spred the tail feathers and strut. Most often lagere head and body. But best at least on homers. Feel the vent area vent bbone. cocks most allway vent bone almost touches. Hens slight gap. And a little more flex. I suggested not letting them all out at one time. Settle one or to Then step it up. But train them to trap all at one time. And should be done soon. When you have settled a couple turn out more. with them. Young birds When they are younger sit the loft Look at the sky build wing strengh. And start making short loops. Wing strong birds take to the sky. some times fly out to far set down and do not remember how to get back. But can be settled. What you might do Befor you settle them Skip one day on feeding. Set them on the board. Have the feed bucket or whilstle handy. If they jump up. Try to call them back with it. Young birds 6 months old will pair and breed. You could probaly breed from them ok. Say starting march 05. By then You will know which is what. I would figure just from what I see now. You have 1 maybe 2 cocks. . But another month You will be sure. After you raise some young. The best age to start training them is at about 35 to 40 days old. The do not take much training at this age to get them trapping and resonding. They do not have to be feed trained before you let them sit the loft I allways think the younger they are the less you will lose. They will train to feed easy. But will not train to coming home if they are trained to late as easy. Any way they are your birds. You will be the one who makes the desisions. Good luck . At least you botherd to get intersted in pigeons. Welcome to the sport and hobby.

[WhiteWingsCa]

Originally Posted by ZigZagMarquis

WWCa,

Thanks for the words of advise, but I have to admit, they sound rather depressing.

What I'm hearing from you is... 1) These birds shoud remian prisoner?... 2) Don't let them breed until they are at least over a year old?!?

I really don't have the space to split the loft between cocks and hens... heck!... I don't even know which are which at this point... I've got a guess, but even you'all experts can't really tell for sure until the eggs start coming!

I suppose that I'll let them fly someday... it will at least be a month, maybe more like 2 to 3. If it doesn't work out, it won't be the first bad decission I ever made and it probably won't ever be the last...

Anyway... WWCa, you say you lost birds that you let out at 7 to 8 weeks of age... everything being perfect, how old are your birds when you first let them out then?

Yes, it does sound depressing... but I just wanted to be clear to you what COULD happen if you let these guys out. It's depressing to think they won't ever fly free (I hate having "prisoners" myself).... but even more depressing to think of them never returning.....

We "wean" our birds at 4 weeks. Within a day or two of being moved into their own 'room', the youngsters are put out into the aviary to start trap training. After about 3-4 days of trap training, the door are opened for them to the great blue yonder. LOL So --- our birds first go out at about 5 weeks of age.

Of course, at that age, they can't fly far -- just hop from the landing board to the roof, and maybe a crazy wild 1/2 circle around the yard. That is the point -- they are too young to fly far -- so with each day, as they grow stronger and more confident, they see more and more of the yard and surrounding areas, before they fly out of sight.

You're right -- it's often hard to tell cocks from hens in youngsters. For the past two years, we haven't even 'split' our young birds over their first winter.....we just watch for any serious 'nesting' (doesn't happen often, really), and break up nests if they start building. If a young cock bird is adamant about 'driving' his hen.... he will get moved to the cock loft.

Re Lee has given some good advice, if you choose to try and fly these birds. Make sure they are REALLY WELL trap trained. Make sure they are REALLY hungry when you first let them out.... and only let out one or two at a time. (one would be my choice). Let it out just before meal time, if you have a regular time of day that they get fed.

Some folks suggest letting them out on a cloudy day -- they fly less far on those days then one bright clear ones.

And be aware of migratory hawks at this time of year too.... I don't recall for sure where you live (?) -- but where we are, we don't let the birds out --- trained or untrained --- from now, pretty much until March, due to hawk problems.

[Motherlodelofts]

Tape the last 5 flights of one wing and put them in a cage where they can get used to their outside surroundings during the day. also get them used to something such as shaking the feed can at feeding time. after a week open the door so that they can start working thier way in and out. Then remove the tape. But like the last guy said the air sharks are on the move and these killers can and will kill and or maim a pigeon quick. I wouldn't worry about breeing until Spring. Toss any eggs that are laid