Poops...what do they REALLY mean

[Pigeonpal2002]

Originally Posted by Janet

Anyways, IO droped off 3 fecal matters this morning to the vet. My vet said that its best not to treat them if nothing is wrong. Plus- he wants to make sure there prescribed the right meds if something is wrong. I'll keep you all informed about the poopy test outcome. I never thought raising pigeons could involve soo much. Hey, I guess there no diferent than having dogs and cats as pets.

Hi Janet,

Good for you, I'm glad you have or found a vet and that you decided to get some fecal tests done. Your vet sound very conscientious and smart not wanting to prescribe without knowing.

Let us know what you find out.

[Janet]

Well, I got the test back. I actually took 3 different matters to the vet. He mixed the three up and tested like that. He said if it came back w/ problems that we should probably test each bird to find the culprit. Anyways, it came back w/ a very very small trace of coccidia. He also said that a very small trace of that is usually common in pigeons. At this point, he doesn't feel it something that has to be treated. He just said to keep an eye on them and if I start noticing any changes, to call him right away. I feel soo much better. I've been going crazy since the whole green topic. We had an ivory plant that made its way into the loft. We chopped it up and got it out of there. Could that cause green?

[TheSnipes]

Originally Posted by jbangelfish

How would a pigeon get liver damage? Not impossible I suppose but...

For many of the same reasons other organisms do

[Pigeonpal2002]

Originally Posted by Janet

Well, I got the test back. Anyways, it came back w/ a very very small trace of coccidia. He also said that a very small trace of that is usually common in pigeons. At this point, he doesn't feel it something that has to be treated. We had an ivory plant that made its way into the loft. We chopped it up and got it out of there. Could that cause green?

Hi Janet,

So the presence of small amounts of coccidia were the only thing the vet found in the fecal samples? Your vet is right and it's true that nearly all pigeons have these organisms and live with them just fine. It's only when the levels get out of balance that a problem develops into actual sickness. There are many medications for coccidiosis available at various pigeon supply stores and you should probably pick something up to have for any problems down the road.

I'm sorry I can't advise on the ivory plant, don't even know what that is. Were the birds eating it?

[Janet]

Thanks Brad. Actually, I meant to say Ivy plant. I think they were eating it. We saw little pieces nibbled out of it. We ripped it out. My vet doesn't want to prescribe me the medication to have on hand. Only if they need it. However, I agree I should have something on hand. On weekends, the avian doctors aren't on call much. Its difficult to get a hold of them in real emergencies. I've had this problem already w/ my parrot. Will Foys sell them w/o a prescription. I was really hoping to just go through my vet, but I don't think it will work out that way.

[Pigeonpal2002]

Originally Posted by Janet

Thanks Brad. Will Foys sell them w/o a prescription. I was really hoping to just go through my vet, but I don't think it will work out that way.

No problem. Yes, you can get coccidia medication from Foy's or any other pigeon supply houses without prescription. You should pick up some of the basic meds to have on hand and for the reasons you mentioned.

1) Something for worms
2) Something for coccidia
3) Something for canker
4) Something for lice/mites and all external creepy crawlies
5) A broad spectrum antibiotic such as Baytril or Amoxicillan

Everyone has their own preferences or recommendations for what brands of medicines they think are safest and most effective. Start building that medicine chest! It's expensive to keep buying these things that might never be used, but it's insurance and peace of mind should your pigeon(s) get really sick.

In time you will get to know the signs of a problem, what to look for in the droppings, you'll get to know your birds normal behaviours very intimately and of course you will get assistance/advice here from all the other experienced people.

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hello Janet & Everyone,

Another thing about poops that I don't think I mentioned is that you should smell them often. I know it's not the best job in the world but you can often tell if there is something wrong by the smell rather than going by the look of the droppings.

A pigeon's droppings should have very little or no foul odour at all. The exception to that being a hen or even a male bird that has held their feces in for an extended period of time while on the nest, then lets loose...those will stink! Otherwise, you should smell your birds droppings regularly, get them right up to your nose and take a few deep sniffs! If they smell sour, rancid, funky, putrid, etc., then there probably something going on with the bird that needs further investigating.

[Janet]

You have got to be kidding!! This has got to be one of the funniest yet disgusting things I've ever heard. Yep, bend over and take a nice good sniff at POOP. GOD- that sure smells sweet. LOL Well' I'm new at this and I'm not going to lie, I probably will do it. SSHHH. Hope noone takes a peak at me doing this.

[Rooster2312]

I am nursing a cat-caught wood pigeon and I am concerned about these poops. Can anyone shed any light as to what yellow urates mean?

Thanks,

lindi

[John_D]

According to "Problem Dropping Explained" (the 'poop book') this would indicate liver damage n other pigeons, but that could have various causes. A bad internal canker could cause damage to vital organs, including the liver, for instance. That might render him easily caught. How is the woodie's mouth?

Also rather vaguely offers bacterial or viral infection as possible causes. Infection from the cat, or has he had Synulox?

John

[Rooster2312]

Thank you John for your reply. I have a thread in the sick and injured wood pigeon section that gives more information. The bird had been treated with baytril initially over a 24hr period as we didn't have synulox at the time, but has been on synulox from then on for over a week. We stopped anitbiotic treatment a few days ago as the droppings were very loose and we thought the antibiotics were causing this. Since we were popping the synulox into the bird, we were able to inspect the bird's mouth with no obvious sign of canker. Despite the stress and injuries to the bird when we first took it in, the initial poops from the bird were reasonably normal looking and urates were at that time white.

Lindi

[cyro51]

How long have the urates been that colour for? I had a pigeon in "isolation", but that was just so that he could be with his mate, and for one day his urates changed to that very deep yellow. He has been OK since then so I have no idea what caused it, all I know is that it wasn't his diet and it wasn't canker.

Cynthia

[Lady Tarheel]

Lindi, I know our vet has always said "orangey/yellow" poop can indicate liver problems but we have had some with those colors that lasted a day or so and the pigeon never had a problem. Lets hope it is just a temporary thing.

[Rooster2312]

Thanks for your replies on this. The bird's poop has been this colour for 3 days now with no change. Just before and immediately after we stopped the antibiotics, the bird was passing very watery poops (looked just like liquid only), but since then, they have looked as they do in the photo.

I really don't know what to do now, and am worried now that this problem is now irriversible. I know that antibiotics are not going to cure liver damage, but if there is still infection going on that is bacterial in origin, I'm thinking that I should be starting the antibiotics again before things get worse. I am also worried that starting them again may cause more upset to the liver or that the causative organism, should it be infection, is resistant to the antibiotic now having stopped treatment for a few days.

Lindi

[cyro51]

Hi Lindi,

Have you been giving him vitamins? There can be brown or yellow droppings after feeding vitamin B supplements. Some foods can also clour the urates.

I was also wondering whether he might be a little dehydrated? You have probably seen what that can do to human urine.

If you are going to treat him you would need to choose the appropriate antibiotic and the best way of administering it. About liver damage the poops book says that an additional check is "Poor colour to skin and mouth membrane" and that the causes include viral, bacterial, tumour, afaltoxins and chlamydia. I was reading about bacterial hepatitis ( yellow poops were not a recorded symptom, but then I found this: Depending upon a bird's eating habits, some birds have a yellow pigment in their blood that is passed through the kidneys and is recognized in the dropping as yellow urates. These yellow colored urates may give some cause for concern, as about the same color develops if a bird is becoming jaundiced. If a person notices these yellow urates and the bird is not perfectly healthy, the bird should be examined by a veterinarian to determine it the bird has hepatitis. ) and the treatment was by injectable Baytril.

I also found this in Winged Wisdom, but it was an article about parrots:

URATES: The urates should be white and the volume of urates in each dropping will vary. The absence of urates for more than a half a day requires an immediate vet exam. Any color changes should be reported to your vet immediately. Yellow urates can be a sign of liver damage, kidney problems, or peritonitis.

And then there is this (sorry I haven't included links, I am afraid of losing the post if I go backwards and forwards too much...
but Milkthistle could do no harm: The vet wanted to do many tests - a blood test, poop test, and crop analysis. Being umemployed, it hurt a bit more to pay for them, but I was not about to put Pez at risk by refusing him the proper care. I think that the blood and poop tests are standard, but I think that the crop one was just done because I mentioned the vomiting. Anyway, the crop and poop tests turned out just fine. The blood test did not. Pez has extremely high bioacid levels, which is indicative of fatty liver disease. We will put him on milk thistle for three months and then check him again. It's a prescription drug, and despite the normal requirement for oral meds, I was told it's specifically formulated to go in the water. I was surprised to learn that Pez may have fatty liver disease. It sure will light a fire under me to get him onto pellets. He sure has gotten chunky - 38 grams. He used to weigh 27.5 grams, I think. Anyway, I asked the vet if there was anything specifically that I could look for to see if the situation was getting worse, and she said that I should look for yellow urates in the droppings.

Cynthia