Potential Disaster For Local White Flock

[amyable]

I am getting increasingly concerned for a local flock of mainly pure white doves/pigeons. They have lived for as long as the local pet shop keeper can remember in a derelict building at the rear of his shop.
The shops have been sold for redevelopment and this will mean their home is soon to be demolished. They are beautiful birds and when I asked the pet shop owner what was happening about the birds, he just shrugged his shoulders and said, it was a shame but nothing as far as he knew.

I managed to climb up and peek through a broken window and could see two dead birds but could also see many others perched about in various corners, and lots of cooing!

I've tracked down and spoken to the developers who now own the building and the date for demolition is possibly the 1st May. I rang them again today and the secretary said she had spoken to her boss and that they are now aware of the birds but doesn't know what, if anything, is planned. She did say perhaps they would contact the RSPCA or RSPB, but this filled me with horror as although I've been referring to them as 'doves', they might just see them as pigeons and we know what that might lead to. I'm now a little concerned that by making them aware of their existance, I might have put the birds in more danger.

My question is, should I be worried about them losing their home, and what is the worse case scenario should they just go ahead and knock it down without trying to move the birds first. What would pigeons tend to do, stay around trying to find their home or relocate themselves naturally?

Obviously I'm concerned in case there are any babies and did say to the lady that I would prepared to go in the building and take any squabs rather than them be left to die, but she couldn't say if that would be allowed. I am ringing her back next week to see what she has found out.

Janet

[Shrek]

Why don't you just go in at night and catch them and relocate them. Its really easy to catch them at night. If it really bothers you I'm sure no one would have a problem with you removing them.

[george simon]

I realy think its not a good thing to be stumbling around at night in an old building. Now there must be people in ENGLAND that can help you,and I would hope that they will post here soon. .GEORGE

[Charis]

Originally Posted by george simon

I realy think its not a good thing to be stumbling around at night in an old building. Now there must be people in ENGLAND that can help you,and I would hope that they will post here soon. .GEORGE

Exactly...and a figuring out a place to take them to before the rescue is made.
How big is the old building?

[philodice]

A big rescue operation requires lots of preparation. As we learned in Phoenix, once birds are being removed some will relocate themselves. The most important thing is education. Make sure the owners know that poison isn't the answer to cleaning out the building first. If worse comes to worse and the only way is to catch them, you might have to find somebody to keep them locked up while the building is being demolished. Afterward just let them go in a flock and they will find somewhere to live. That takes the birds out of danger but still lets them be free.

[Trees Gray]

I'm so sorry to hear about this dilemna.

Can you estimate about how many birds you saw? Considering that, you might be able to guestimate how many youngsters there could be????...... since breeding season is in full swing.

[chriss80]

Maybe you get the names of the companies involved in this so we can write letters or maybe will make any difference.
Someone told me about a person that had a pub and the pigeons wore building nests into the building and he could not remove the nests so he had to call a pests company
If you get any squabs I can help you with them by taking some, I have special food for them already.

[John_D]

May (only may) be useful to let PICAS know of the situation, and possibly make the new owners aware of them.

I don't know if they could or would get involved, to be honest. It's just another possible line of enquiry.

John

[Feefo]

My guess is that they will let the pigeons relocate rather than kill them , that is what they usually do. But there is always the danger of someone going in at night and shooting them.

I don't think poisoning any birds is legal now.

It is the nestlings that will be in real danger. They will need to be removed and taken to somewhere with the facilities to raise them.

It is a long journey to Norwich, but if we can keep them warm enough during the journey then we can take them to Hallswood .

We bought a pigeon trap for the relocation of the Kettering birds which we can use again.

Get as much information as you can, Janet. Once we know what we need to do we will all pitch in. Remember how Jayne managed to save 21 squabs when they were "pigeon proofing" a railway bridge!

Cynthia

[amyable]

Hi All,

Thanks for the support. The building is locked up so no possiblity of going in unattended I'm afraid. Also it looks very rickety and may not be safe. Another problem is it's a two storey building with a dodgey staircase. The birds enter from the top floor window and some are roosting up there. I would imagine they would have to block the windows so they couldn't escape if anyone were to attempt capturing them.

Trees Gray, There aren't a very large number I don't think but as the inside is so dark with many nooks and crannies I can't be sure. I'll go back tomorrow and have a further look. I also noticed a couple of Magpies coming out of the windows, so the poor babies, if there are any have got another problem.

Cristina, It crossed my mind about writing but as time is getting on I thought I'd better try phone contact first. I don't know if anyone else thinks that might help.
The lady I spoke to is the secretary to the lady who is in charge of this development, but she said she doesn't attend the meetings so didn't know what they were planning. She will see her boss on Monday so I said I'd phone again after she had seen her. At least she did pass on my message of concern, you do wonder when you end up speaking to a secretary whether they will bother their boss with such matters!

Cynthia,
I did mention this to Jayne the other day when I phoned her as I remebered she did that wonderful rescue before. It was the squabs she was most concerned for. I've got to go out for a while now but will keep you posted with anything I find out.

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Janet

[Shrek]

You guys are silly. I help people all the time remove pigeons from there buildings. Its actually a lot of fun. 2 people can catch more pigeons in one night then most people can shake a stick at. Shoot some barns we have caught 200+ pigeons out of. You allow the people to make the repairs or what ever is needed to keep the pigeons out then let them go. They relocate just fine. Saves the pigeons life. Makes me good contacts and makes the owner happy. But everyone has there own Ideas.

[Feefo]

Shrek, I think you are missing the point. By law we are not allowed to enter another person's property, derelict or not, or to remove birds or nests without theproperty owners permission and a special licence from DEFRA or Natural England. What we are trying to work out is how to get the site owner's approval to remove any squabs and to remove and relocate the adults if appropriate.

Janet, if they start to bring up health and safety issues and insurance then you can tell them that Pigeon Aid will hire a professional to remove the nests for us to save the squabs and to secure the building so that the pigeons can't get in to lay more eggs. If there is a cull planned then say that we will hire professionals to help us trap and relocate the adults.

Did you watch Coronation Street tonight? Is there any chance that there are bats roosting there?

Cynthia

[amyable]

Well that's sorted then Shrek, when can you come over!!!! (joking).

[amyable]

Cynthia,
I have just been to play tennis and missed Coronation Street, what was it about?
Lost most of my games too as I was too busy thinking about the birds and what to do next. I was in fact going to ask you if I could at least use Pigeon Aid's name to give them the impression I was connected to a formal pigeon rescue group, that way they might be more communicative with what's going on. I would hope they might be pleased that someone could take over the problem for them.

You've hit the nail on the head exactly with your reply to Shrek, it is getting them to let us take action. I can tell from the cut off in the conversation that she just took me to be a mere 'bird caring member of the public', 'now that you've told us, leave it to us' type of attitude. Pleasant, but I'd hit a brick wall then.
So that's brilliant, I will get that message through to her now hopefully before they have any more meetings about it.
The old Health & Safety issue is what I expected them to use as an objection to me going in by myself.
What is it the position with Defra in these situations, do we need to inform them at all if we were to get the go ahead?

Janet

[Feefo]

Hi Janet,

We will need a general licence, but as far as I know they are just printed off the Internet...something I mean to pursue at a later date.

On Coronation Street Tony finds out that Roy has realised bats are roosting in the building that is being converted, so he goes to have a word with him.

Tony suggests Roy keep quiet about it. Roy agrees, then says that of course he has already informed the Bats Conservation Trust and Natural England , just as he thinks Tony himself would have done . LOL

http://www.bats.org.uk/batlaw/Bats%2...0the%20Law.htm

Cynthia