Well i bought 2 pair and a loan hen from the pigeonpeddler website

[LokotaLoft]

I too would go to the source first and see what he has to say about the situation at hand and go from there .. he probably was trying to save money but how much did he charge you and how far from him do you live if you are close bye maybe he was thinking they wouldnt be in the box that long and tried to cut a corner of two i do know that shipping isnt cheap anymore , not that it ever was but it keeps going up and thats no lie.

[TAWhatley]

What a terrible shame! It's the seller/shipper that is at fault here. I'm with Robert .. let's not be going after the Post Office .. granted .. they should have been a bit more clued in, but if they were, it wouldn't have done any big favors to the pigeon fancy. It's the shipper of the birds that is at fault .. JMO ..

Editing to clarify .. it's fine to bring this to the attention of the Post Office, but I wouldn't be going on a "witch" hunt against them .. it's the shipper who is at fault.


Terry

[Charis]

When I mailed pigeons for the first time, they were lost. I was so nervous about mailing them in the first place that I had a hard time sleeping. When they didn't reach their destination and the Postal Service said they had no idea where they were, I contacted the individual at the PO with whom I had made the reservation. I didn't yell and I wasn't mean, I certainly wasn't on a witch hunt but I wanted answers.I wanted the Pigeons found. I told him I was upset and that I would give him 30 minutes to find the pigeons and if he couldn't find them, I would come sit in his office until he did. He found them very quickly.
I think the Pigeon Peddler is an individual that mails pigeons on a regular basis and probably makes his reservation with the same individual each time at the PO he uses. It sounds like both have become lackadaisical and I believe both need to be held accountable. JMPO

[auroraborealis]

Hello to all!

I watched the YouTube video and that was enough for me to make up my mind never to buy any pigeons from this person. I'm surprised he uses these videos to sell his pigeons because they have quite the opposite effect on me and I would put them in the animal abuse category instead.

I also agree the PO has nothing to do with this : their job is to send whatever they have to send and make sure it gets there.

Do you need a license to sell pigeons ? Must you belong to an association if you are shipping birds ? I think I would contact the SPCA.

He must be held accountable like any pet shop owner would or should be. I don't see any difference here.

Susan

[EgypSwiftLady]

What about contacting the BBB? Of course first I would contact the seller and ask why 5 birds were stuffed into a box too small and what condition they were in at arrival and what he would do to make things right. If he chooses not to do anything, then I would contact the local SPCA, the BBB, do you belong to NPA or the UA or any other pigeon forums? Get the word out on those about the bad deal and how it was handled, let as many people know NOT to do business with him.
You must have all the documents... shipping info, photos, etc. so that you are able to show anyone that might ask.

[spirit wings]

The Pigeon Peddler....just the name turns me off......something I have learned from this thread is when I buy birds the next time I will talk to the seller and tell him what I expect and make sure they know how to ship the humane proper way and make sure you pay for the extra boxes when needed. I would be happy to buy extra boxes and pay more shipping just to know my birds had extra room and ventilation. and not settle for anything less and let them know that I don't expect anything less....this is a good reminder.

[AZWhitefeather]

Originally Posted by TAWhatley

Editing to clarify .. it's fine to bring this to the attention of the Post Office, but I wouldn't be going on a "witch" hunt against them .. it's the shipper who is at fault.


Terry

I don't think there's any worry about a 'witch' hunt being organized.

On a more serious note:
I agree, in that it is the shipper's responsiblity to ensure their birds are properly prepared for shipping.

However, the PO has the ultimate responsibility to ensure that the shipper has adhered to their (USPS) guidelines, e.g., using a USPS approved box & that the box is the proper size for the number of birds being shipped.
http://www.pigeonsuppliesplus.com/photo2_4.html

IF a box presented to the postal clerk is anything other than their approved box, it should be rejected.

IF the number of birds exceeds the size of their approved box, it should be rejected.

Cindy

[little bird]

Cindy makes a lot of sense. For example...how did he get away with the WEIGHT of 5 birds. Isn't there a max wt for a 2-bird box?? For that matter a 2bird box would be insufficient for more than one of the giant breeds. If weight restrictions on the boxes is NOT already on the books....perhaps a few well placed phone calls could enlighten the USPS. Certainly a wt reg would avoid the situation that just happened.

[spirit wings]

Originally Posted by little bird

Cindy makes a lot of sense. For example...how did he get away with the WEIGHT of 5 birds. Isn't there a max wt for a 2-bird box?? For that matter a 2bird box would be insufficient for more than one of the giant breeds. If weight restrictions on the boxes is NOT already on the books....perhaps a few well placed phone calls could enlighten the USPS. Certainly a wt reg would avoid the situation that just happened.

I think that is a great idea...he most likely uses the same usps office and they could stop this from happening if they were "reminded" of the weights.

[Lovebirds]

Weight really has nothing to do with it. Two Owl pigeons or two BABY pigeons don't weigh as much as two adult pigeons and if the adults are BIG pigeons,....well, weight don't work. These boxes aren't made for JUST pigeons. Chickens and ducks can be shipped in them, so one duck or chicken could weigh as much or more than two pigeons.
Thing is, the PO workers are not taught what to look for. The get a box, throw it on the scale and take your money. It's that simple.
Take a look at this APPROVED box.
http://www.hm-e.net/p1single.htm
There's a VIEWING WINDOW.........it's there for a purpose. But it's not used. I just shipped Avion (George) two birds. I don't THINK that the box had this window. I ship birds all the time from the same PO. Same guy always waits on me. In 6 years, he's never looked inside a box that had a window. He'll ask me sometimes how many birds are in the box. I can give him any number, 1 or 2, and he just takes my word for it. I don't know if the window is supposed to be mandatory........I know that the boxes with windows are a newer design.......but whether it's supposed to have a window or not, apparently doesn't matter because know one knows or even checks. There are some boxes being sold without the window, so that may be just an added touch, but not required.
Now, I haven't read or seen anywhere that states, without exception, that you absolutely can not put more than 2, 4 or 8 birds in a box, depending on which size you are using. As far as I know, the number of birds is a recommendation.
Three 28 day old baby pigeons will fit in a 2 bird box very easily. If you take a 4 bird box and remove the dividers, you can easily put 5 or 6 smaller breed pigeons in the box and they have plenty of room.
So, who's at fault for what happened with these birds?
The fancier is the FIRST one. And I still believe he should be reported to someone.
The PO is second in line. I don't think anyone should get in trouble at the PO, but I DO believe that some guidelines need to be drawn up, printed AND adhered to by the PO. I believe that they should have the right to refuse to ship a box if they see that things aren't by their guidelines. I believe that the PO where these birds were shipped should be made aware of what happened. I'm sure they would be horrified if they knew.

[spirit wings]

Originally Posted by Lovebirds

Weight really has nothing to do with it. Two Owl pigeons or two BABY pigeons don't weigh as much as two adult pigeons and if the adults are BIG pigeons,....well, weight don't work. These boxes aren't made for JUST pigeons. Chickens and ducks can be shipped in them, so one duck or chicken could weigh as much or more than two pigeons.
Thing is, the PO workers are not taught what to look for. The get a box, throw it on the scale and take your money. It's that simple.
Take a look at this APPROVED box.
http://www.hm-e.net/p1single.htm
There's a VIEWING WINDOW.........it's there for a purpose. But it's not used. I just shipped Avion (George) two birds. I don't THINK that the box had this window. I ship birds all the time from the same PO. Same guy always waits on me. In 6 years, he's never looked inside a box that had a window. He'll ask me sometimes how many birds are in the box. I can give him any number, 1 or 2, and he just takes my word for it. I don't know if the window is supposed to be mandatory........I know that the boxes with windows are a newer design.......but whether it's supposed to have a window or not, apparently doesn't matter because know one knows or even checks. There are some boxes being sold without the window, so that may be just an added touch, but not required.
Now, I haven't read or seen anywhere that states, without exception, that you absolutely can not put more than 2, 4 or 8 birds in a box, depending on which size you are using. As far as I know, the number of birds is a recommendation.
Three 28 day old baby pigeons will fit in a 2 bird box very easily. If you take a 4 bird box and remove the dividers, you can easily put 5 or 6 smaller breed pigeons in the box and they have plenty of room.
So, who's at fault for what happened with these birds?
The fancier is the FIRST one. And I still believe he should be reported to someone.
The PO is second in line. I don't think anyone should get in trouble at the PO, but I DO believe that some guidelines need to be drawn up, printed AND adhered to by the PO. I believe that they should have the right to refuse to ship a box if they see that things aren't by their guidelines. I believe that the PO where these birds were shipped should be made aware of what happened. I'm sure they would be horrified if they knew.

oooooh I see...I guess that makes sense...the post office does'nt care how many are in there...so...also it is good to make sure when you buy,from the seller make sure they know how you the buyer want them shipped.

[AZWhitefeather]

Originally Posted by Lovebirds

Thing is, the PO workers are not taught what to look for.
The get a box, throw it on the scale and take your money. It's that simple.

Well they should be.
After all, shipping birds is one of their services.

Cindy

[Lovebirds]

Originally Posted by AZWhitefeather

Well they should be.
After all, shipping birds is one of their services.

Cindy

I agree with you, but as long as people get dead birds in the mail and boxes stuffed full of birds that shouldn't be stuffed in there to begin with and keep their mouth shut, nothing is going to change.

[Lovebirds]

Originally Posted by LokotaLoft

I too would go to the source first and see what he has to say about the situation at hand and go from there .. he probably was trying to save money but how much did he charge you and how far from him do you live if you are close bye maybe he was thinking they wouldnt be in the box that long and tried to cut a corner of two i do know that shipping isnt cheap anymore , not that it ever was but it keeps going up and thats no lie.

I keep hearing that shipping has gone up, but either my PO wasn't told... or it's only gone up in certain places. I just shipped two birds to NC. I shipped 2 to the same place back in April maybe? and the ones I just shipped were only $22. Now they were small birds but still, that's no more than it ever been. HMMMM...........
I'm not complaining.....just wondering..........

[AZWhitefeather]

Originally Posted by re lee

A complaint to the post office may be the wrong thing.
AS shipping birds has been an issue And may do more harm to the people that ship birds the right way.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Are you suggesting that the PO not be notified so as not to make waves?

Birds are dying & becoming misplaced due, in part, to the negligence of the USPS.
Are these incidents supposed to be swept under the rug with regard to the PO involvement?
Kind of like the old adage, 'Out of Sight, Out of Mind'.

Originally Posted by Lovebirds

I agree with you, but as long as people get dead birds in the mail and boxes stuffed full of birds that shouldn't be stuffed in there to begin with and keep their mouth shut, nothing is going to change.

I couldn't agree with you more, Renee.

WHOEVER takes part in the shipping process of any bird(s) is responsible, to some degree, for their safety.

Cindy