Well, it's official. I'm "the pigeon lady"

[Kimberly_CA]

So I just thought I'd update on whats going on around here. I have 4 pigeons-

One pure white who had been attacked by something, one blue check who was found during a storm when she was about 2 weeks, one black spread w/bronze tumbler mix of some sort found walking down the street with wings clipped wayyy short, and my one and only baby from the pure white and black spread tumbler who appears to be a "tort" grizzle (I will get a picture when I can to confirm this).

I had birds before but never liked them much b/c I am a clean freak and birds are quite messy. But these pigeons kind of found me. Eventually it became four birds all living in a large parrot cage in my house.....vacuuming, oh the vacuuming. One day it became too much and I rolled the cage out on the patio in the shade. I live in an apartment and my patio is enclosed with a 6 foot fence and it's covered by my upstairs neighbor's patio.

I left them out their a few days to get used to things. The cage is covered with a large thick rainproof tarp/blanket. Eventually I opened the cage and out one flew. I wasn't planning on letting her out. I have never experienced the real homing instinct. Well she didn't go anywhere so I let the others out. Now I have a mini flock of 3 females and 1 lucky male. My dogs share the patio part of the time and are so gentle they let the birds walk over them.

I have good relationships with the 3 apartments who surround me and they all enjoy the birds. The bird who was found in the storm as a baby was partially hand raised. When she was growing up shed poke her beak through the cage and i'd kinda grab it like pigeons do. She didn't like me much (or I thought she didn't) until she snuck out of the cage the first time. She follows me all around when I go on walks. She goes up to all my neighbors and struts around them like a male (but I have seen an egg actually drop out of her). Today I watched this old man who keeps to himself sit out with her for a good half hour. Petting her and such.....

Sometimes I worry she is toooo friendly. I feel guilty at the thought of not letting her fly free though. The birds do spend about 90% of the time within 20 feet of their cage. They leave in the morning for a few hours but come back before it's hot. Also, they are so smart. They know which car is mine and will only rest on top of it. They poop on it but it's a crappy car and i'd rather it be my car then my neighbors. I have talked with all of them and said if they needed me to clean up poop or find something to stop them landing on their patios i'm very willing. But they all love them. I take my 2 dogs, one being a pit bull, on walks around the complex and the friendly bird follows us all around.

I live in where there are hawks but not overhead right where I am. I have never seen one fly over, hope they never catch on. I don't see any other pigeons here either. One good thing is my whole complex is pretty much shaded by trees so I would think thats good for hiding from hawks right?

The birds sleep in the insulated cage if they are cold and never go far. I don't think there has been a time where I didn't see them for more than 30 minutes. I enjoy them so much outside. Before they were inside in a cage in the hall but now when sitting on the couch I can always see them through the sliding glass. Hose off the patio daily and I'm golden....they are sooooo happy too. I can just tell. I knew it would happen... I'm there, you guys told me so....

[Trees Gray]

Hi Kimberly,

Thank you for the update.

It is nice to hear the birds are adapted well and it is very good that you have communication with your neighbors in advance.

I do have to caution you, however, that hawks may not be there now, but they will eventually show up once they know pigeons are around. I didn't have any hawks for 6 months, but eventually they started coming around when they saw my pigeons flying, that is their favorite meal. I don't want to ruin this very happy place you have found with the birds, but I have to warn you. There are many people here, who have had similar experiences. The birds are very vulnerable outside on their own, and it is usually devistating what can happen. You might want to consider keeping them inside an enclosure or aviary.

[TAWhatley]

Hi Kimberly,

Though all seems to be going well for you and your birds right now, I think you are heading for some sad losses and difficult times. As Treesa posted, the hawks will eventually show up, and there other other predators such as cats and raccoons that you need to worry about. Lastly, there are the humans. Sad as it is, it's almost inevitable that someone will complain about the birds sooner or later.

Perhaps you could construct a predator proof aviary on your patio so the birds can have their time outside, fly a little bit, and still be safe.

Terry

[KIPPY]

Can you enclose the patio with anything?

I agree with the last two posts, I wouldn't risk it.
They may find a partner while they are out and not come back or they may bring back more pijes.
If you were able to enclose the patio then you wouldn't have to worry about the neighbors.

[Jay3]

Be careful of the hawks. Sometimes the cover from the trees will work against you. We occasionally have coopers hawks here, and they hide up in the branches, then swoop suddenly for their victim. The birds aren't always aware that they are being hunted until it is too late. And they will be around eventually. Enclosing the patio would be a great idea if that is at all possible.

[Kimberly_CA]

I have never to this day seen a hawk around my complex. It's in the city and they don't fly around here. The birds have been out a couple months now and I couldn't make them be enclosed....i'd feel sooo bad. I don't think I can do it....I don't understand, so many of you have outside birds, right? I definitely know there is a risk but i'm willing to take it. The birds are all in excellent health and fully feathered. They are weary of cats/other dogs. If someone complains I will have to change the situation and I would do it. Since it's been months already and everything is going smoothly I'm not gonna change it just yet. Sometimes I lock them in at night and I will be doing that more and more since summer is nearly over.

I enjoy them immensely outside, as do they. Maybe we will be lucky. They wont live forever, I don't even know how old the older ones are. I think the freedom is worth the risk. I'm sure other people feel the risk isn't worth it but to me freedom is everything. They don't need to forage for food and they rarely do. Mostly sitting on top of their cage under the upstairs patio or on my fence pecking and drinking (I lay out their food/water there every day). Anyways, I'm sorry for not taking your advice, I do appreciate it though. Hopefully no one will have to say "I told you so".... They wont live forever but even if they were gone tomorrow I'd be happy they got their months of freedom and who knows maybe it will be years. Heres hoping

[Charis]

Oh Kimberly...hawks do fly in the city and pigeons attract them. They are there...you just haven't noticed them.
Your thought process feels so faulty to me.

[TAWhatley]

I hope the birds have long and happy lives, Kimberly. If things do go bad, I'm not going to say I told you so .. I'll simply offer my condolences for the loss of the bird(s). You've obviously given this a good bit of thought and have arrived at your own conclusions. I think you are wrong, but they are your birds, and you are free to do with them as you see fit.

Terry

[Kimberly_CA]

Sorry

[maryjane]

It sure is a hard decision, isn't it? I always say I'm lucky since many of my birds can't or don't fly, they are all kept in, so I don't have to make the decision as it's made for me. And your pijies obviously enjoy their freedom and sound quite happy, which I know you are glad to see. I truly hope they stay safe. Of course with colder weather approaching, I'm sure they will want to be in their coop more and more. I would suggest locking them in at night just to be on the safe side.

I had a feral cat once, named Gary. I brought him home when he was three months old and had never been around humans. I had three of his littermates that I'd had since they were tiny kittens (Gary was the only one their mom moved before I found the litter). All of my cats were house cats until we moved to an actual house on a quiet road, where the speed limit was 25 and there were plenty of fields and a huge backyard. Gary sat at the window all day long and watched outside. I didn't feel it was fair to him to keep him enclosed, when he had already lived outside, depressed and hating being in the house. I knew the road was a danger but Gary wanted out so badly. Finally I started letting him out during the day. He had six months of free time, in and out of the house as he pleased, before he was hit by a car. I felt really bad and questioned my actions on letting him out. Then I realized that the six months of freedom, and high quality of life that he had and enjoyed so much outside, were worth more than his life would have been if he'd been cooped up in the house, miserable and depressed day after day. To this day I no longer feel guilty or remorseful, because I know that's what was best for Gary, though of course I miss him very much.

I just share this story because it seems to me kind of the same situation, so I really do understand how you feel. My only thought is that you might try keeping them enclosed for a few days and see how they adjust. With 99% of mine, many who came from free-flying homes, they all settled right in to the aviaries and seem quite content. Just an idea. I hope I've made some sense in my ramblings.

[Jay3]

I have to agree, to an extent with Mary Jane. I too, understand how you feel. I have always believed that the quality of life is more important then the quantity. So then, of course, you'd have to be able to figure out how much the quality of life would be diminished for your birds, if they were not allowed to fly free. Maybe not as much as you think. I don't know. My birds are so content in their loft, I have a hard time getting them to go outside in the aviary most days. But that is just my birds. I can't speak for yours. I understand how you feel though. Hard to make the decision for another living creature. I'm not saying that you are wrong, as I don't think there is a right or wrong. Just a personal decision. I don't think you have to apologize to anyone for the way you view life and the freedom to live it the way it should be lived. I just wanted to help to make you aware of the fact that hawks are around, whether you see them or not, and that that could very well eventually be a danger to the birds. The ferrals are always in dager of them, but I think they have a stronger instinct about such things, as they were raised wild. And with the numbers in their flocks, there is more safety. They have many eyes turned to the skies in watch. One warning, and they all take off together. You only have four, and they are not aware of the dangers, so for them, it is even more dangerous. I don't know the answer. I have a hard enough time making such decisions for my own birds. I just hope for the best for you and your birds.

[spirit wings]

I know how you feel too....I have 28 homers, used to have 30 guess what happend to the two...but they were meant to fly and I know they are happier that way...also the more they are out the wiser they get and they can out fly a hawk(sometimes) and trap in my loft if they need to go for cover. but I always worry about them and stay out there with them to try to detour any hawk attack...saved one this way, he was a little beat up but I got to him fast and scared the hawk away. this is a constant battle with people that keep homing/racing pigeons....keep watch and enjoy your birds

[silverbranch]

I can't speak to keeping the birds inside or out as I don't have pigeons, but I just wanted to say there are hawks in cities. If pigeons can live there, hawks/falcons do too. And just cause you don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there. I used to work in Queens, NY and a Peregrine Falcon of all things lived on top of our building. It was beautiful. It would also be sad when we'd find bird remains on the ledges outside the windows. :-(

A couple weeks ago my best friend and I spent a few days in Washington DC. When we were ready to leave we were standing around by the Smithsonian near the Capitol Building trying to figure out how to get to a subway station. While she was looking at the map, I was watching a few pigeons pecking at the cracks in the sidewalk. All of a sudden a homeless guy jumped up from the bench pointing and said, Hey, is that an EAGLE?? I turned around and there was a GIANT hawk standing on the ground next to a building about 20 feet from Constitution Avenue! I couldn't believe it. I whipped up the camera and got a picture of him as he flew off, I guess he got spooked when we all were pointing at him. He didn't go far though....maybe about 50 feet and landed in a tree. I have to assume he was down on the ground because he had caught something but it was behind a fence so we couldn't get close enough to see. No movement though.

I hope keeping your birds outside works out for you, I personally couldn't deal with it. I'd worry too much. Someone on here made a great point that racers and homers have the speed to have a fighting chance against predators and that makes it a better risk. I know my doves are terrible flyers and really can't get out of their own way. I could never let them out. (Plus they don't have any homing instinct anyway) I put feeders out for the cardinals and hummingbirds and enjoy them outside.

[KIPPY]

I don't know. My birds are so content in their loft, I have a hard time getting them to go outside in the aviary most days.

Not surprised.

Like humans, my opinion every pij is different. I have a couple rescues that won't leave the rehab flight cage. I had the door open so the ones I had could leave and one that did leave came back. I have other guys that won't leave the patio. These are ferals not hand raised so they now what it's like to be free flying.
So maybe it's not all that wonderful on the other side of the hardware cloth.
Some do take off like there's no tomorrow. Some I have never seen again so who knows what happen.

[Kimberly_CA]

Thanks everybody for your opinions and well wishes. I wanted to say something I left out last night. If I find one of them hurt/dead (god forbid) by a hawk I will change the situation. I know once hawks find them they keep coming back so if one came around eventually, the birds would have to adjust to enclosed life.

One thing that holds me back from keeping them inside until something happens is there is one outcast. The parents and their daughter are the best of friends but the other one is not well liked. They do allow her to be near them and when something spooks them they all four take off. But if they are in a cage/small space together they chase her. I'm not sure why they don't like her but they don't. She is very fast and healthy though, just the lowest member of the group.

Beautiful pics silverbranch! And nice story mary jane. I know how you feel. I have a cat who went from 90% outside to 100% inside. He was fine for 6 months until he figured out how to climb a tree onto the roof and then 5 times in one week he went up there and yowled all night. I have to lug this huge ladder back and forth across the complex to get him down. Longest he stayed up there was 3 days before we got the ladder (fire dept/cops couldn't care less). Now he has to stay inside. He hates it. I'm looking into getting permission to put a squirrel gaurd on the tree so he can't climb. Cars are not a worry as the complex is enclosed and there is no traffic over 3mph. But man I can't wait until he can go out again he HATES being inside all the time. He is super high energy but fortunately my dogs play with him and get some of the built up energy out.

Someone mentioned keeping the birds locked in more often. I mentioned that earlier but maybe it got lost in the long posts. I frequently keep them inside at night until around noon and when its cooler i'm going to even more often. Thanks again for understanding my views guys and for your good luck. Hopefully nothing will happen but if it does I will change things up.