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7 tragically orphaned squabs.....Hello folks,
This is my first post here, but I have been "lurking" about reading posts and gleaning what I can to further my knowledge about proper care of the little ones, that seem to come in droves, needing help in some fashion or another.... I am a Wildlife Rescuer, yes I have a Federal permit, and it appears that my area has either too many Feral pigeons, or too few humans who appreciate the beauty and the tender, nurturing nature of the pigeon. Until I stepped up and asked that I be notified when someone has a pij needing care, instead of automatically euthanizing all pigeons and doves that are brought in to our facility. I felt these birds weren't being given a fair chance to recover and if someone just cared a little more about them, lives would be saved... Well, me and my big mouth have volunteered ourselves right into tending to a flock (seemingly) of week old squabs that got "evicted" from their nests to make way for the unrelenting surge of "progress", a new Wal-Mart must take hold of what once was a quiet nesting site.... To make a long story short, my kitchen is filled with the cheeping honks of naked, flapping and stomping pigeons who have decided I am the mommy and they are all famished! I have cared for little ones for years, normally just one or two, briefly during the baby season. I have had limited success with squabs this young and I am hoping this group will fare better and make it to eventual release. Sadly, after only a week, one baby finally expired. No warning... just gone when morning came. Droppings looked normal, a bit more liquid than I appreciate, but about as I would expect nestlings droppings to look. I observed no respiratory difficulties, no obvious failure to thrive, enormous appetite to the point of my having to pry the little bottomless pits off of my hands after they have consumed half their body weight in "Exact" baby formula mixed as per recommendations of the company for their current age. I am concerned that another baby is going to fail now, that is why I am seeking opinions and input from others who have more experience and better success than I have to date. How can I be sure the babies aren't overeating or ARE actually not getting enough nutrients in their systems? I don't allow their crops to become any more than about halfway full at a feeding. I am feeding just about every 2 - 3 hours during the daytime hours and they sleep like good babies all night. (Nicely tucked into individual "nests" that are lined up atop a warming shelf at night) They are all able to see each other, and yet can stretch and flap to their hearts content without kicking each other out of the nest accidentally. They are all kept tidy, I make notes to myself regarding the specifics of each individuals intake, weight and "output". In short I am probably fussing too much over these fellas. I am wondering if I should be providing any additional care or treatments at this point. Should I be medicating them? I don't know what I would be treating at this point as nothing seems wrong with them. Is it normal to just lose the occasional chick while hand rearing a group, like I am? I should mention that I feed most of the vigorous ones with a hand-held syringe. I understand how to do this without aspirating the chick. I have been pretty lucky to this point at least I HAVEN'T aspirated any yet.... This failing baby I am resorting to tubing it's food into it. Getting it interested enough in it's food to gape is time consuming and frustrating for both of us. Tubing makes feeding so much less of a battle, at least for me... I am also trained and comfortable with tubing, though I prefer to not have to resort to this if I can help it. Please let me know if I am leaving out something critical that I can endanger these babies by not providing. I am very motivated to see these babies fly away one day.... Many thanks.... 
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Hi There,
First off, Welcome to Pigeon Talk. Thank you as well for caring for so many in need mouths at your home right now. Just briefly, it is "normal" to lose some young for various reasons. Especially since these are wild birds and could be carrying a variety of illnesses. Canker is a VERY common but deadly disease in young pigeons. There are others such as E.coli and salmonella that will cause birds to die suddenly as you have described. If you know how to detect canker, perhaps this could be addressed with medications. For bacterial infections, there are drugs but I'm not familiar with dosages for young individuals at different ages. You can treat them for parasitic infections like lice, mites and worms. Canker treatments are important as well or they just won't make it. I'm leary of suggesting courses of antibiotics to wild birds because I don't know if it really helps in the long run. Other members should be by later on to assist you and give more insight. Thanks again and welcome to the group,
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Please describe Canker to me. I have a basic idea of the illness, but as I said earlier, I am very cautious about presuming anything about these guys for fear of making a tragic, avoidable mistake in caring for them.
Canker manifests itself as whitish looking "growths" inside the birds mouths and throats. It is a painful, yet treatable illness if caught early on, correct? This condition can also manifest itself throughout the digestive tract, internally and can be the cause for bloody droppings in some instances... is this correct? It is also a contageous illness that can be passed to other birds via shared feeding instruments/feeders/waters or by contact with airborn droplets from an infected sneezing/coughing bird... again is this correct? Is there an incubation period for this illness, my babies have been here just over one week now and I am intimately familiar with each of the babys. They are all very willing to expose their gullets to anyone who looks like they might have food to offer. You can easily inspect them inside clear down to their toenails it seems. Other than the one chick who is becomming increasingly hard to feed, none seem the slightest bit ill. Even the one who died gave no indication it was in trouble... It plexes me that I might have missed some critical clue. I am amazed at how complex, caring for baby pigeons can be. It is definately not for someone who isn't willing to dedicate themselves to the responsibility is it? It makes me think back on raising my own children, and I had thought I had seen the last of those days.... Ha! Thank You for responding so quickly to my questions, I really appreciate your willingness to offer insight.....
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Hi Again,
Well, your information on canker seems to be very accurate. I'm not really sure about the incubation times of the virus in pigeons. I'm thinking that since a young bird hasn't developed a proper immune system, you might not see any growths in the mouth before they succomb. The virus might kill the bird before any actual lessions show up in the throat. I'm not too sure about this though. The mortality rate in young pigeons is fairly high however due to various diseases in the wild. You are right, it's not an easy job for even the experienced folks. I myself am not a rehabilitator but there are quite a few on the board. Some of the others will be along shortly to give you more precise answers. Keep up the selfless work though, you're doing a great job by the sounds of it.
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You are doing a great job with the babies. Unfortunately fatalities in very yound hand raised babies is common and most of the time we don't have a diagnosis.
Some might be carrying diseases passed down from their parents. You are right about the canker. Unless you clearly see the white/yellowish smelly lesions of canker, the only other way to diagnose it is with swabs. Canker is a parasite-protozoan Trichomonas gallinae-that lives in the mouth, sinuses, throat, esophagus and other organs. The mortality is high if not cought early. The transmission is from parent to offspring via feedings, sharing water and food is another mode of transmission. The treatment is Metronidazol, preffered by my vet, Spartix (Carnidazole) and several other ...zoles. I just had a very advanced case of canker in a pigeon and thouroughly discussed this disease with my vet. Treating a bird without having a diagnosis is not recommended, that goes for all diseases. The reason is, too many antibiotics, except for not being good for the bird (most meds are toxic to liver and/or kidneys) especially in young. Also they might cause resistance for many bacteria and parasites. The risk is in a few years metronidazole, Baytril and other antibiotics commonly used just won't work anymore. Now, back to your babies. The poor little one who didn't make it, might have had something transmitted from the parents. Other things that might happen is sour crop, crop stasis , nutritional deficiencies, those are the most common. Could you tell us what you are feeding them and how much? Also a little bit of sunlight every day will help them metabolize vit D which is important in growing. A UV lamp would also do. Just make sure they don't get overheated. Probiotics are important and if you could add enzymes to their feedings that would help. If you don't have probiotics, plain yogurt is a good alternative. I think it is 2cc in 20cc's of food once a day. You are doing great, please keep us updated and feel free to ask any questions you might have. Reti
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Hello, and welcome to pigeons.com.
If you look in the Pigeon Daily Pigeon Resources forum you will find a chart that maps the day to day development of a squab. This should enable you to establish the exact age and whether they are developing normally. Can I recommend that instead of feeding directly from a syringe or tube you use the “syringe and balloon method”.? This involves slicing the thin tip off a syringe (a 20ml should be fine for a 2 week old squab), filling the syringe with formula and taping something over the mouth of the syringe such as a piece of cloth, stretch bandage or a piece cut out of a balloon. . You cut a cross (X) in the fabric and steer the pigeon’s beak into the hole. (I will bump up a post titled “there will be tears” which shows a photo of this in use on page 2 of the thread). The squab will start to gobble the food as you depress the plunger gently to pump more food in, mimicking the way the parent feeds his squab.. Make the Kaytee a bit thinner than recommended as it thickens in the crop. Feed until the crop is noticeably inflated but not hard. Like a ¾ hot water bottle. I think that for a 2 week old squab that would be 30ml per feed, 3 times a day going up to 40ml per feed when they are 4 weeks old. Naked baby pigeons have two dots on their shoulder area. When these start to turn white they have had enough to eat. It would be a good idea to weigh the babies regularly to ensure they are thriving. You must also ensure that the crop empties completely every 24 hours. Canker isn’t a virus, it is a protozoa that lives for a very limited time outside its host. It is passed through direct oral contact (as in crop feeding) or when a pigeon with canker picks up a seed and drops it to have it immediately eaten by another pigeon. Feeding instruments passed from mouth to mouth can spread it, but not droplets or sneezes. It takes 6 days at least to develop from the point of infection. There would normally be visible signs of canker in the form of cheesy growths in the mouth or as a lump in the neck , navel area or cloaca. If one of the babies seems sickly then please separate it from the others, keep them all warm and sheltered from drafts. I am so sorry that you lost one little one. This happened when my own rescue pigeons were fostering a thriving baby, I found his sudden unexplained death devastating. Hope this helps. Cynthia Last edited by Feefo; 15th March 2005 at 05:21 AM.
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Quote:
Thanks Cynthia for correcting me. I knew it wasn't a virus but I was typing fast at work (in between dealing with something else). I just used the incorrect term for the affliction.  Avianrescue, You've just been given some excellent advice from some of the experienced rahabbers on the list. I think you're doing a splendid job though and seem to be very diligent in your observations. Thanks for helping these 7 orphaned babies.
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Several methods have been mentioned. I for one only use chick starter that has been slightly heated then stired to a soupy mix. Then use a 60cc catheter syringe. .It has a extended end on it that enables one to go down the throat past the air way. and pump the mix directly into the crop. After mixing the mix and loadind the syringes. you can feed 7 babys in less then a min, Chick starter is lightly medicated and helps the young bird fight off sickness. And is very good for the young bird to grow by. I was introduced to this method back in about 1988 and it has worked very well. And all this can be bought localy in most towns with ordering The birds go on to eating and drinking with easy times. And the only thing Is some birds have to forget your not its parent. they are very tame.
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Sorry, Brad, I wasn't intentionally correcting you on what the organism is called (I am one of those types the first word that comes to hand and I hate it when people correct me
 ). It was the mode of transmission that I was really focusing on, whether canker could be spread by droplets from something like a sneeze.Cynthia
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Hi Squab,
Three things - What are you feeding them? What are the ingredients? (and how often in the day do you make it fresh? are you steralizeing the syringe between times?) What do their poops look like in terms of color and consistancy? Lastly, plesase consider to skip trying to use a Syringe for feeding Columbiformes, especially any who are interested in eating, who are wishing to be fed. These Birds will never gape, their method is to insert their beak into the throat of their parents, who will being up food for them form their crops for them. So, try this instead - Take a 5 inch square piece of Saran-Wrap... If you are right handed, moisten with a little water the thmub and index finger of your left hand and make a small "O" with your index finger so it's tip is at the root of your thumb...and put the Saran-Wrap over that so that it has a little pocket in it, letting your other fingers make a loose "C" shape that keeps them out of the way... So, making the the "O", with the Saran-Wrap on it with a little well or cup, or pocket so that little pocket is about the width and depth of the last joint of one's little finger. The moisture will help the Saran-Wrap adhere. Fill this pocket useing a tea spoon, with the food. The Baby, Squabling or Fledgleing Pigeon may like to have their beak directed to this little pocket a few times by gently grasping their beak tip and pokeing it into the food filled pocket, for them to learn that it is now the method. They will take to it with unbridled enthusiasms very readily. If you think they are enthusiastic now, just wait... As they individually feed in this little pocket, use the finger tips of your right hand to gently massage the underside of the poclet hanging in the littl "O" your left index finger makes to hold the pocket, massage the food into their soft beak. Change the Saran-Wrap piece as needed, or when moveing on to the next Bird. One should enjoy excellent success by this method, and, the Birds like it very much. Hold semi-high, like their crop's hight or a little higher, tilting it to them, and pump it up and down gently as their parents would have... Forget the syringe...and if ever resorting to one, make sure it has a very soft, blunted end tube on it, you can puncture their crops or damage them in their enthusiasms or wiggleings...but regardless, it is not necessary and or can fill them much too fast, also... Phil el ve
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All of this info is being very avidly processed, I appreciate everyone's willingness to share both their time and knowledge with those of us with endless questions. The correction of my understanding of Canker helps me to better understand this problem and will come in handy for any future cases I may have to deal with.
I am fairly certain that I am not facing Canker with my failing chick. This mornings observations of the little guy are as follows. Very eager to be fed as soon as my voice is heard. (For simplicity's sake let's just refer to the ill chick as a "he") He stands on tip toes and flaps as hard as he can. Still it seems as if he's just not as strong, physically, as he should be. He has several thoughfully placed tiny, brown/clear droppings from overnight on the outside of his "nest". Again seemingly normal behavior. His crop is almost completely flaccid, nothing hard remaining in the lowest pockets just above the keel. His keel is quite sharp yet and his little ribs seem to have only the slightest bit of padding on them. His breathing is still via mouth, his nostrils seem to be plugged but he will blow a clear mucousy "snot" bubble when he "searches" for food between my fingers. For this reason I am opting to tube feed rather than try to feed from a baby nipple that has been split down the center. ( I will try to photograph my feeding set-up and post it here shortly ) Syringe feeding this baby is not an option at this time as he gets panicky and will struggle unexpectedly during the process. I am determined not to drown any babies if I can help it... I am feeding the following at this time... Exact baby bird formula with about a 1/4 cup of our facilitys own blended formula mixed in. Our facility advocates feeding pigeon/dove chicks a blended mixture consisting of plain yogurt, Gerber (or like brand) of creamed infant Turkey or Chicken dinner, the hardboiled yolk of an egg, 600mg Calcium Carbonate, 100mg Vit C and a spot of Cod Liver oil. The above is blended together until creamy using Osmolite and Ringers as needed to make the end result the consistancy of almost liquid pudding. As chicks mature the mix can be made with less liquid and some wild bird seed mixed in little by little as they learn to pick up and consume solid food and water. Any input on what we feed is also welcome... Back to the chick, he was tube fed and seems satisfied after his crop was filled just over halfway. He settles right down to nap in his nest... still breathing thru his mouth. I can discern no bubbling or aspirated chest sounds via stethascope. The white spots that were mentioned are present on the wings. * I didn't know about those thank you very much btw *Unfortunately I must tend to things at work for the moment but I will post this for now and will check back soon for input.... Thanks in advance
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Hi Squab,
Canker, so far as I know, is cause by infections or infestations of the otherwise soil habitating, free roving, flagillate protozoan Tricomona, the illness itself being sometimes called tricomoniasis... Generally, more than generally, if a Pigeon has it, their poops will have a chalky 'yellowish' thin component instead of the substantial white component. The chalky yellow will saturate or soak into the cage bottom towell or paper towels or whatever instead of being solid. This is the impirical poop-related indicator.
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AvianRescue,
Your combination of Kaytee and the other ingredients you're adding to it sound PERFECT. I don't see how in any way you could improve upon the formula you're mixing. You've obviously done your homework 
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Hi Avian Rescue,
Some squabs are born with Salmonellosis, they are hungry but don't thrive. They develop enteritis and become depressed , emaciated and dehydrated and most die if they do not receive treatment. The treatment is a course Baytril...unfortunately that affects healthy bone development in squabs initially but it saves their lives. I am told that they catch up eventually with the development. Cynthia
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Hi Squab,
Your Bird(s) are possibly sick with an illness, possibly reacting badly to your feeding method and formula...and...in addition...your food formula is either starving them to death or making them sick in addition to any underlieing illness they may have. No young Bird should be breathing through an open beak unless it is overheated...in fact, try and allow them an option as for elcting the degree of warmth they like. if they are feathered, they may not need much, but they sound starved, so they will need more, but...let them decide how much, let them have room to get away from or off of the heating pad or whatever you are useing for their warmth. Likely, unless you are in a very cold clime, they do not need any at this point except for being malnourished to allow them the option of warmth they can choose. I do not know what is in the brand name product you mention, but forget it for these little ones. If it is for Ducks and so on, skip it for Columbiformes. Pigeons are Seed eaters and are not equipped to process Animal proteans or caseins or dairy. Do this - In a quart sized sausepan...put in say a cup of smallish fresh wholesome Canary Seed or regular Wild Bird Seed...add maybe 1/2 cup of clean non-tap Water like from a Water Store or something and do not use already on the shelf bottled Water...heat gently... Add some regular Gerbers or similar instant people-baby Cereal last of all, to thicken so it is like a meadium thick soup. Add some teapsoon or two of powdered 'Super Greens or similar that you can get at a healthfood store...add a little teaspoon or so of FRESH Olive Oil ( a new bottle and keep it out of sunlight and away from heat thereafter)...add some Crushed Oyster Shell Grit, say two good TABLEspoons or so...stirring of course while gently warming... You may also add a teaspoon or so of powdered Purple Dulce or other powdered Sea Weed. They should soon be making luscious firm wholesome poops at least the size of a large Blueberry, and the poops should be white solid paste curled in with dark greenish-brown...the poops should be around twenty or thirty a day or so, more or less, maybe more...and should not be sticky or liquidy and will have no odor worth mentioning. The babys themselves, if you stick your nose into their feathers, should smell like fresh, wholesome grain...if they do not, something is not right with the regimin, or with them. The mucous at their nostrils may be from an illnes, or may be a bad reaction ro dairy. Pigeons are NOT lactose tolerant, and mucous problems are a likely reaction... Phil el ve
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