Concerned about wildlife center advice in regards to PMV bird

[John_D]

Once they have had the virus and stop shedding it (see the other thread on PMV pigeon) they will not be contagious.

Those which, I'd agree, are a potential threat are the birds which get the virus but in who the neurological symptoms are so slight (if present at all) as to enable them to function normally while the virus is still active, and be misdiagnosed. But they would probably only rarely if ever come to the notice of a rescuer anyway.

John

[pigeonperfect]

I don't release infected pigeons either for the sake of the healthy ones out in the wild. As rehabbers, we look beyond the individual we are caring for, like in a case of PMV. Disease can spread so quickly, even wiping out entire flocks of birds. In my opinion, and I adore pigeons, releasing one for the sake of it, is not worth exposing another risk to the healthy ones.

Renee

[John_D]

Originally Posted by Charis

For the most part, we don't recommend these birds be released.

Absolutely .. which is why we have such a motley crew of PMV-ites pretty much running the aviary (and two more waiting to go in).

John

[jbangelfish]

Originally Posted by sandt

Hello everyone,
this is my first post here. We rescued a pigeon (for the first time)that has the same symptoms as Sarahttt has described-in particular the neck twisting and the head seeming at times to be turned completely upside down while the body is standing normally. When the pigeon sleeps it's head seems to be drooped to one side.
I read about PMV on this very website and was encouraged to learn that if it is PMV there is a good chance of recovery if the pigeon is given the right conditions.
We called a Wildlife Centre here in Toronto to get more information and we were told that if the bird has PMV there is no chance of recovery because the disease causes the degeneration of the lining of the brain.
How long should we care for the pigeon before we can know whether it will recover or not.
If it looks like it will not recover what is the best thing to do?
Any advice would be much appreciated!
Thank you in advance!

Has anyone here seen a bird with a vitamin B deficiency? The symptoms are exactly the same as for PMV. Head tremors, turning the head upside down, inabilty to fly or flying backwards and a general loss of muscular control and equilibrium.

I treated several birds for this over the years and it is extremely simple. You just feed them a brewers yeast tablet once a day for two or three days and they are fine. It's been so long since I've had a bird like this that I cannot remember the dosage or tablet size but I think 500mg was what mine were. I will try to find the old bottle and try to get this information for everyone. It works so well, it appears miraculous and it is so simple.

I think that the only way to properly diagnose PMV would be by some sort of lab test (I don't know if they do a fecal or blood test but I'm sure plenty here can answer that). I have never had a bird with PMV and have only read about it.

Giving any bird that is merely suspected of PMV some brewers yeast tabs for a couple of days is certainly not going to hurt and even if it has PMV, the vitamin B is going to help (not cure PMV however).

Vitamin B deficiency is caused by rodents being around the birds and either contaminating their feed or just eating the germ from seeds and depleting the vitamin B. Many lofts and many areas where pigeons congregate will have rodent interractions, especially during cold months.

I would urge anyone who has a bird which presents these symptoms to try the brewers yeast tabs to see what happens. Certainly, isolate the bird. Even if it's a simple vitamin B deficiency, it should be isolated for it's own protection as it is quite defenseless against anything.

Does anyone have experience with this? I can't imagine that any long time pigeon keepers have not seen this.

Bill

[John_D]

Bill, that is a most interesting observation on the vitamin deficiency symptoms. I have never read of that similarity with PMV.

Brewers Yeast is certainly supposed to be good for the human nervous system, and I have heard of it being given to pigeons. I have a feeling that some time in the past we had tried it.

I would expect that given a week or so of isolation with a good, all round diet containing the necessary vitamins, a pigeon with that deficiency should show definite signs of improvement. I guess the extra B vits speed that process.

Unfortunately, we have none who have lost the neurological symptoms in so short a time as to cast doubt on whether they had PMV or not and, with the obvious expense of getting tests done for every suspect bid we take in, I think it's the time factor which confirms the diagnosis.

John

[jbangelfish]

Originally Posted by John_D

Bill, that is a most interesting observation on the vitamin deficiency symptoms. I have never read of that similarity with PMV.

Brewers Yeast is certainly supposed to be good for the human nervous system, and I have heard of it being given to pigeons. I have a feeling that some time in the past we had tried it.

I would expect that given a week or so of isolation with a good, all round diet containing the necessary vitamins, a pigeon with that deficiency should show definite signs of improvement. I guess the extra B vits speed that process.

Unfortunately, we have none who have lost the neurological symptoms in so short a time as to cast doubt on whether they had PMV or not and, with the obvious expense of getting tests done for every suspect bid we take in, I think it's the time factor which confirms the diagnosis.

John

This isn't anything that I discovered. I had a bird like this back in the 70's and I called Clair Hetland, who used to own Foys Pigeon Supply. He was the one who told me about the vitamin B deificiencies, why they occur and how to remedy the situation.

Over the years, with having pigeons in large barns and outbuildings, my lofts often were not rodent proof and I did have maybe 4 or 5 birds (out of thousands) that would have this situation and they were all cured in a few days which truly appeared miraculous.

I bought a large collection of German Toy pigeons from an attorney, who had the nicest pigeon loft that I have ever visited. The birds origianally came from Dr. Len Hummel and were outstanding quality. Along with his birds, the nest fronts and his meds was a bottle of brewers yeast tablets. I can only assume that he knew this remedy as well.

I absolutely would urge anyone to try this remedy for a bird that exhibits the symptoms of PMV as they are exactly the same. It even makes me wonder if they are the same or if simple vitamin B is a cure for PMV, which seems unlikely as it is said to be a virus. I would certainly isolate the bird but a 3 day treatment of vitamin B is not going to hurt a bird even with PMV and would likely help it as well.

Bill

[Trees Gray]

Originally Posted by jbangelfish

I absolutely would urge anyone to try this remedy for a bird that exhibits the symptoms of PMV as they are exactly the same. It even makes me wonder if they are the same or if simple vitamin B is a cure for PMV, which seems unlikely as it is said to be a virus. I would certainly isolate the bird but a 3 day treatment of vitamin B is not going to hurt a bird even with PMV and would likely help it as well.
Bill

Vitamin B Complex is considered the "nerve and energy" vitamin. It would make sense that a lack of it would display the same symptoms as PMV. PMV is such an overload on the system that is burns up all the B vitamins and the rest are secreted in the poop, as it is water solluble vitamin.

It's already on my list of supportive measures, in the NATURAL HEALING thread in the RESOURCE forum, under PMV. I went back and bold printed it for everyone.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10568

We recommend to always follow up with a dose of probiotics.

[jbangelfish]

Originally Posted by Trees Gray

Vitamin B Complex is considered the "nerve and energy" vitamin. It would make sense that a lack of it would display the same symptoms as PMV. PMV is such an overload on the system that is burns up all the B vitamins and the rest are secreted in the poop, as it is water solluble vitamin.

It's already on my list of supportive measures, in the NATURAL HEALING thread in the RESOURCE forum, under PMV. I went back and bold printed it for everyone.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10568

We recommend to always follow up with a dose of probiotics.

I have read quite a few threads about the PMV symptoms and felt compelled to put in my 2 cents as I've seen these symptoms a few times and cured them very quickly, thanks to Clair. Clair was a genius and a pigeon breeder.

I just want people to try this simple remedy as it won't hurt anything and I worry about the misdiagnosis of PMV. We are most likely to encounter the vitamin B deficiency after the cold winter months when the mice move in.

I also wondered why it never got any mention.

Bill