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"Crow Baby" update, and his little pal...Hi all,
 Just a few casual sneps of just now...showing "Crow Baby" and his progress, and his affection for the little young adolescent Dove who is recovering from having been Cat-Caught and ill... http://community.webshots.com/slides...324&key=GOdVmQ In checking the Link to see if it works, I notice that 'webshots' automatically edited the word 'Nipple' with hatch marks... Lol... Phil las Vegas Last edited by pdpbison; 1st June 2005 at 02:25 AM. 
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Hi Phil,
Great pictures of "Crow Baby" & young Dove....you are right--in the one photo, Crow Baby looks just like Uncle Fester!!! LOL Linda
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Phil,
I doubt that any feathers will ever grow on top of his head--it should end up being all scar tissue. This will have its pros and cons. Since he looks more like a buzzard than a pigeon, he may end up with some social issues later on (bless his heart!) so you might think about fabricating a toupee. Just a thought. The "pros" are pretty much limited to just one--he shouldn't have a vitamin D deficiency owing to the amount of now-exposed-to-the-sun skin. Of course, he might have problems with sunburn up there. Goodness knows I do. Seriously, I wonder if his upper beak is crossing because it's growth is impaired on one side due to the injury? I saw a special on TV once about an owl that had some kind of upper beak problem and "they" had to surgically install a prosthetic in order to save the life of the bird. Can you get a close up image (with flash) of his beak and post it? You're doing great so far--he sure is in good hands! Pidgey
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Pidgey had writ - with quotes now in 'Blue'...
Phil, "I doubt that any feathers will ever grow on top of his head--it should end up being all scar tissue." One would expect so...but I am holding-my-breath, so to speak...  I have added some additional images which I took earlier to-night - for which the earlier link will still work for that 'Album' of my web-shot thing. "This will have its pros and cons. Since he looks more like a buzzard than a pigeon, he may end up with some social issues later on (bless his heart!) so you might think about fabricating a toupee. Just a thought." Yes! Very true...it would not attract the kind of attentions he would enjoy, from the ferals or others. So, for eventual outings one day, I may have to make him something of a Toupee in deed..stick it one with 'Spirit Gum' ike they used to do with fake Moustaches and so on in Vaudville...  "The "pros" are pretty much limited to just one--he shouldn't have a vitamin D deficiency owing to the amount of now-exposed-to-the-sun skin. Of course, he might have problems with sunburn up there. Goodness knows I do." Less to preen, or, just slide a towell over it once, after bathing, ought to do it. Too, I am thinking of trying some 'Rogaine' on it, see what happens... If anyone knows of any other products, please let me know..? Too, in theory, I could bring him to one of those 'clinics' that do the Hair Transplants, and, have them do some 'small' select Feather Transplants from somewhere else on him...in theory! Should work I think..! "Seriously, I wonder if his upper beak is crossing because it's growth is impaired on one side due to the injury? " Yes, the injury was to the top and somewhat to one side more than the other. It curved away from where the worst half of the injury was. And, it curved slightly 'down' also, leaving a gap between where the central 'bridge' of his upper Beak had been, (where it had merged into and between the former Wattles) and, the tip. Oone torn part of the lose area of what had been the central 'bridge' lifted up in a ragged way, and that is what retained the then dried bit of green 'Soup' I let it thinking it would do no harm and would flake off after a while. But it stuck there pretty good... The upper half of his Beak is very weak there, and if I touch the dried Soup, the rest of the Beak visably flexes or moves from there down. "I saw a special on TV once about an owl that had some kind of upper beak problem and "they" had to surgically install a prosthetic in order to save the life of the bird. Can you get a close up image (with flash) of his beak and post it?" I will try again soon to do so. It has been VERY difficult to get clear, in focus images of his face or head or beak...! I have tried actually many times now with poor or no success. When I am ready to snap the image, he tends to move or to never hold still long enough for me to even compose an image from close up. if he is laying ot standing still, me bringing the Camera gets him all wound up, or, he gets wound up and then starts preening...Lol... "You're doing great so far--he sure is in good hands!" Thank you... He is a sweet little Bird, and I am very proud of him. I am amazed he did not die from what happenned to him. And I am amazed and grateful that he can peck so well and feed himself happily, he loves to eat. I never did try tube feeding into his Crop, initially when he had so little, or no interest in eating, or when he had very little interest in being fed via the little 'Nipple' or other insert-the-Beak methods...fearing for how frail his Beak was. Nor could I do 'Seed-Pop'...so...I was so HAPPY he started Pecking sucessfully and was able to eat naturally in that way. He is kind and sensitive to his little recovering or recovered now of Baby Dove buddy, and that is very sweet. I do not know what to expect for his Beak, but I imagine that the lower half of it may hang on for who knows how long, but I do not know how Beaks grow, or, how much they may do so, or from what point...I do not know the manner of Beaks growing. So, 'Holding my breath' on that matter...as well... He is making small flights now also. And is starting to do his 'Helicoptering' excercises now. Thanks Pidgey..! Phil Las Vegas Last edited by pdpbison; 4th June 2005 at 12:54 AM.
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Phil,
Did some searching and found some references to damaged beaks. I was looking for the owl that I was thinking of and came across this first: http://huh.nchl.bc.ca/wrc%20pics.htm Here's another: http://www.maars.org/news/petstory.php This is a GREAT story: http://www.libertywildlife.org/help_need.html Here's another: http://www.bronxzoo.com/278313/186579 I never found the one about the owl that I was looking for but apparently it isn't a unique story. Hopefully, Crow Baby won't need anything that drastic. Pidgey
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Hi Pidgey,
Great links...enjoyed reading them. Man, that Umbrella Cockatoo, Angel, was hard to look at without her prosthetic.... I have the Animal Planet channel and will be looking for Angel's story on Pet Story. I know the show is from 2003, but the channel repeats many of it's programs over and over, so hoping I will get lucky one of these days. Those are some lucky birds that had enough people care enough to go the extra mile to help them. Thanks Linda
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Pidgey, what great links you posted. I especially enjoyed the links about Half
Face, also Jimmy. Thanks for posting.
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feralpigeon,
Isn't it nice to know that there are people out there who are even crazier than we are with respect to trying to help hurt birds? Pidgey
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Hi all...
Crow-Babys' little Dove buddy is fine and well and a little odd...she resembles in her mannerisms, more a Baby Duck somehow...is tranwuil and very self posessed and likes to come peck when he and I do so at the little Seed Bowl they both share... Ohhhhh golly...as far as Crow-Baby himself now, who has come SO far and been so happy and vivid and learning to fly nicely in here to roost in high places with the present recovering large feral 'Uncle' who has been nice to let him near him...this is a hard one on me here...his little curled top Beak straightened out as far as being 'scizzored' goes, but it goes 'up' form the old injury spot, then curles 'in' or down, and at the weak spot where the wattles used to be, is where it bends 'up' to then curl down in a sort of 'open' position then, since the low spot is where the top Beak bottoms out on the lower one... ...so, it has been progressively harder for him to peck effectively for a few days now. I spent a bunch of times the last few days trying to get Seeds one-at-a-time into his gulllet and it has been very hard to do. If I get him to open wide enough for the Seed to get past that area, he shakes them out 9 out of 10 times. Even when he opens his Beak or is trying to peck, and he HAS been acitively trying to peck MANY times today, and often the last few days, but the weak spot is too low now, or the rest of his top Beak is too high...so he is not getting any Seeds into himself, not getting enough to eat at all...he will not eat like a 'Baby' now, so I can not feed him that way...unless he changes his mind on that. Invitations have not proved interesting to him so far. I am scared to try tube feeding him for fear of how frail the top Beak is at the old injury spot, and while it is on-there well, it 'hinges' there at that spot ( he has no Nostrils or Wattles, and what used to be in those areas grew back as tender light colored flesh which is softand bends very easily)...and I do not want to stress it by prying open his mouth far enough to get a tube into his crop. I may have to do so tomorrow though, as a last resort. He is now pooping little bits of bright 'green' sticky, and White, so he is running on "empty'... I have been vexing all along on how to make something for a prosthetic, and I am stumped...maybe as I fall asleep soon I will think of something finally... Damn...he is such a little sweetie, and has been so happy the last few days to hang out in high places in here with the big feral whose Wing was hurt but now works well and evenly...he still 'peeps' when eating, and if I am near, or pecking with him, he flaps and gets so excited he goes in circles... I will post some images tomorrow...I am kinda tired now...eeeeesh, 4:05 A.M. already...time for sleep... Phil Las Vegas
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Phil,
I think you're going to have to bite the bullet and burrito. I had a vet use a tool on one of my pigeons a long time ago that may help here. It would be about like sliding a popsickle stick in from the side and then rotating to open the beak. In your case, you'd need to lever the top half of the beak with the back edge of the blade and the bottom half with the front edge. It'd be the same as putting a key through from the left side of the bird and turning one-half turn counterclockwise. You'll need to make sure that the edge closest to the bird is far enough back to engage the undamaged portion of the top of the beak parts. Now, here's the part that matters--you have to make a hole in the popsickle stick/key/popcan tab that will allow you to insert a tube or drop peas and corn into it. It just occurred to me that a medium to large paper clip would probably work--you might want to bend the outside end 90 degrees to the clip to help turn it. I'm sure it'd be easier with a good handle like the one the vet had but that's a luxury that you might not need. With your cabinet and tool making skill, I know this device and procedure isn't going to be a problem although you might need another set of hands to help hold his head still while you're getting the food down. The burrito could do most of that, though, if you make it a really good one. Personally, I'd tube feed at least the first shot and then fall back and regroup when starvation is no longer a danger. That leaves the beak. I expect that the blood flow to the actual top of the beak probably was interrupted and it may be dead keratin. I always thought that their beaks grew from a nailbed like our fingernails do until I had to clip a small bit off of Charcoal's beak because it tends to overgrow and hook downward so bad. Well, when I clipped off less than 1/8", it bled a little! So the whole thing's growing. Do I hazard a guess that the normal down-curling tip of the top beak points down into his tongue? You might need to file or clip some of that off. If you did that and it didn't bleed at all, it'd probably be fair bet that the entire outboard section of beak is as dead as a fingernail and will eventually come off. Perhaps there is some living tissue on the left side (I'm recalling the earlier pictures) that's still viable. I'll wait for your new pictures but I'd rather you got the food down him first. As bad as this is going to sound, I expect that they secure those prosthetics on those parrots and such with little titanium screws driven into the skull. That's normal for a special kind of dental work. I sat on a plane beside a guy from Bartlesville (near here) that had a business providing that kind of stuff--false teeth that were essentially epoxy-glued to titanium bolts driven into the jaw. They use titanium because the body will just about corrode anything else. He said that even titanium would corrode if it didn't have the oxide coating on the outside. Anyhow, I'll be looking into that for you and we'll see what crazy thing we can do. Later, Pidgey Last edited by Pidgey; 16th June 2005 at 11:36 AM.
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Hi Pidgey,
Thanks! Yes...the upper Beak from the new-flesh, used to be Wattles, on down, seems kind of inert or to have have been deprived of it's blood flow, and dried and shrank even a little and curled. I will try the 'paper clip' idea, very good notion! Thank you...! More later! And I will put up some images later today. This morning he flew up first thing, to hang out with his big feral 'Uncle'...so, he is still energetic if damned hungry by now! Ohhhh...my...this little harpy is such a sweetie...so, we shall go meet Mr. 'Paper-Clip' now for our Luncheon-Social, and see how we can do... I have had no epiphanys on the Prosthetic, but the more I brood, the more I think I can come up with something which will work... ( I had a Pigeon long ago who lost his entire Beak and it was loose and dangly when I found him...he/she learned to Eat decently after a few weeks of 'Seed-Pops', and after a while was as full and plump as any of them, and oddly, was even beautiful in their way too!...somehow the look was not disturbing at all, but seemed 'complete' somehow...) Phil Las Vegas Last edited by pdpbison; 16th June 2005 at 01:05 PM.
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My seventh attempt to make this post! - every time so far the computer has been jammed with a dead MS-explorer when I go to highlight-and-copy the URL for 'Webshots' or to try 'edit' on my post...yeeeeeesh!
Anyway... Some images which show little Crow-Baby's Beak troubles... I did make a prosthesis today and it fit very nicely in every way, but, he shook his head, and contorted untill he shook it out...! I could not tell if it was the prosthesis itself or the adhesive he objected to...so, I will try again tomorrow... Did maybe thirty sessions of 'Seed-Pop' and got maybe fourty or fifty Seeds in...eeeeeesh, he is "THE" toughest customer I ever had for 'Seed-Pops'...and I thought I had met 'wiggle worms' before...! More tomorrow... I am too sleepy now to again write the long detailed thing again! And I am writing THIS one in outlook express to NOT loose it if there ia a jam again. See... http://community.webshots.com/slides...971&key=COPqEq Showing too, little Dove Buddy and Uncle Feral who are his pals these days... Love, Phil Las Vegas
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Phil,
That's a lot worse than I thought. If it's taking too long to feed him, you might think about constructing a bird holder/clamp. What it would basically consist of is a pigeon-shaped body holder, rather like the form you make with both hands when you're holding a bird. You just have to make it in two halves. For ease of operation, they need to be a top half and a bottom half. The legs need to go through holes in the bottom half and be unsupported so the pigeon can't push off of anything. It needs to fit the form of the pigeon very closely. Then, there's got to be a standoff piece that "cups" the head (gotta' be oh, so slightly padded) under the ears and lower jaw. That portion has to stand off of the main body and support the head at the right position for holding the neck somewhat straight enough to make tube feeding easy. You don't need much sideboards around the head to immobilize it. Anyhow, in a long-lasting situation like this one is destined to be, that might be your best option. I don't think you'll be able to install an external prosthetic because you'll only have soft tissue to glue to and it just gives too much. We've got a real problem here. Whenever I have a "wiggle worm" like that, I have Lin hold the body and then I invert my left hand, palm up, and using the middle finger and ring finger (the one a wedding ring goes on--some people out there have rings on all fingers!) I cup under the ears and lift the head away from the body. This works with a pigeon burrito as well. You have to use the right hand to open the beak and the left thumb and index finger to keep it there. In this case, you're going to need a either the paper clip method or... Something maybe better! If you can get a hold of a Mentor Self-Cath Female, that would probably work real well. If you could talk them into it, you could get one from a urologist's office. It's a real simple thing, just a piece of clear 3/16" tubing with a bullet nosed end and a hole in the side about 3/4" back from the end. You could use the bullet nose to push straight in without worrying about separating the beak. I suppose you could make one easy enough if you had the right kind of surgical tubing. You'd just have to melt the end with flame to form the bullet nose (it'll take some doin') and put the oval hole in with a hot wire. On second thought, call a urologist! Anyway, those are the only suggestions that I've got for the moment. Best of luck! Pidgey Last edited by Pidgey; 17th June 2005 at 09:54 AM. Reason: Spelling error
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What did you use to make the prosthesis and what type of adhesive did you use? In my youth I went to veterinary technology college and I seem to remember something from avian med. about a quick drying smooth cement substance the might be used to build the beak up. I think it was something like what dentists use for repairing chipped teeth. Maybe contact a local dentist and an avian vet via phone, they may be willing to sell the product to you (or donate
 ) given the great love and compassion you have in rehabbing this sweety. Good Luck! Melissa
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P.S. I think the stuff sets up in only about 5 minutes!
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| Tags |
| avian vet, baby dove, bacterial infection, crow baby, safflower seeds, slow crop, tube feeding, upper beak, wild bird |
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