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sirpigeon sirpigeon is offline
Posted 15th September 2005, 08:47 PM
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Parma,Ohio USA
Posts: 292

Curing Respiratory Disease


In the summer,I bought 4 birds at a swapmeet. All 4 were in very bad condition and made coughing sounds as though they had canker.I bought them figuring I could easily save them as I had afew kinds of canker meds.When the birds didn't respond to the canker meds I realized it was a respiratory disease,by then 2 of the birds died.I then got Baytril tablets from Foy's and the remaining 2 are now healthy and thriving.I will always keep baytril in my pigeon medicine cabinet from now on.The dosage is 1/4 tablet daily for 7 days.


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feralpigeon feralpigeon is offline
Posted 15th September 2005, 09:09 PM
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern, CA
Posts: 6,651
Hi SirPigeon,

So sorry to hear about your loss, but very glad to hear that you invoked the
"silver bullet" with good results. I get the Baytril liquid form that you can administer via drops @ New England Pigeon Supply for $25 and like that because I believe it is absorbed quicker into the system. One of these days would love to learn how to do injectable, but not in the cards right now. You might also want to treat for air sac mites to make sure that you have covered all respiratory bases, just a thought. "Scat" w/a couple of drops between wings on bare skin and rubbed in. It is Moxidectin. Also takes care of 'scaley face'.

Best,

fp
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Reti's Avatar
Reti Reti is offline
Posted 16th September 2005, 02:49 AM
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Location: Miami,Fl
Age: 51
Posts: 9,867
That was so nice of you to take in those poor sick birds.
I am glad two of them are recovered now.
Baytril is good. Fp gave you some good points.

Reti
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Pidgey Pidgey is offline
Posted 16th September 2005, 04:37 AM
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK
Age: 55
Posts: 12,391
The only note that I would add is that I recently read in the Avian Medicine book that Baytril will take away the obvious respiratory symptoms for Ornithosis/Psittacosis/Chlamydiosis (different names; all the same) while leaving the infectivity intact. Doxycycline is the drug of choice for that one. There are symptoms that might have been used to differentiate between the different diseases like a runny nose and maybe conjunctivitis. Did you notice anything like that?

Pidgey
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sirpigeon sirpigeon is offline
Posted 16th September 2005, 05:22 AM
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Parma,Ohio USA
Posts: 292
Thank you for the advice Pidgey,I will get the Doxycycline.I definately don't want anything to spread.The second bird that died did have a watery discharge from his nose.The most unusual thing was when I opened his beak to look for canker,his throat looked black.
Thanks for the compliment Reti,I hate to see an animal suffer.There are a lot of kind people on this site that feel the same way.
Thanks also for your advice Feral Pigeon,I will get the Scat for air sac mites. Foy's Pigeon Supplies will be at the pigeon show I'm going to tomorrow,so this is perfect timing.
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feralpigeon feralpigeon is offline
Posted 16th September 2005, 07:30 AM
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern, CA
Posts: 6,651
Hi all,

This was in a recent thread regarding black tongue:

"Now on the Black tongue I can tell you that in our homers a black tongue is telling us the bird is not in condition and possible dealing with a respiratory infection and lack of adequate oxygen supply and the tip of the tongue turns black like this shows, although in the case of this little one it could be that it is filled with canker and causing the oxygen levels to be lower, of course this has been only told to me and I never questioned it so I could be wrong."

Ellen

Thought it might be of some interest.

Also, Pidgey, I know that the doxycycline is the preferred treatment, but have seen Baytril listed as a treatment as well.
Your recent reading is very interesting, I'll have to start noticing if where I see the Baytril advocated tends to be a site where products are being sold.

In the meantime, Sir Pigeon, if you don't already have this bookmarked, this is a good health reference site:

http://www.internationalmodenaclub.c...%20Infestation

fp
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Birdmom4ever Birdmom4ever is offline
Posted 16th September 2005, 10:30 AM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: United States
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 2,981
I use Baytril for serious cases because it's what my vets use, and I've had excellent results with it. Injecting it is really quite easy and very effective with a seriously ill bird, provided you can get your hands on an insulin syringe. (I think Siegel Pigeons sells small gauge needles in addition to the big ones used for vaccines.) I have a ready supply because my son is a Type 1 diabetic. Anyway, I use a little alcohol and spray the breast muscle, moving the feathers aside so I can see what I'm doing. You inject it into the muscle. Be sure to alternate sides, right side first day, left side second day, etc. and try not to inject the same spot. I've heard there can be tissue damage at the injection site with Baytril but I've treated a number of birds with it and haven't had that problem. It's a lot easier than doing vaccinations, which are sub-q shots.

I even saved a little goldfinch hen with Baytril this spring. Salmonella was going around in the local goldfinch and pine siskin populations; there was an article in our local newspaper about it. I managed to catch the obviously ill finch in our yard. She was so sick she just sat on the bottom of the cage. I injected her breast (now that was tricky because she was so tiny) with just a drop, perhaps a single unit in an insulin syringe, of injectable Baytril. Within hours she was sitting on a perch, eating thistle seed! I gave her a second injection the following day and followed that with 14 days of Baytril (the other type, that goes in the water) in her drinking water. She made a full recovery, though one wing remained disabled. Followed that with probiotics and vitamins.

Pidgey has a point about infectiousness, though. My best pigeon health guide says that Baytril is good for respiratory infections but the combination of Doxycycline and Tylosin is best because the two drugs target the two different organisms usually responsible (Chlamydia and Mycoplasma). I don't like to use Baytril for flock treatment because it's a big gun and I prefer to save it for serious, individual cases. Don't want to overuse it. We had an outbreak of respiratory infections and several "one-eye colds" this summer. I treated the whole flock with Doxy-T and it cleared up.

Keep in mind when you use any tetracycline-family drug, you need to remove grit and pickstones while they are on it because calcium renders it less effective.
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Skyeking Skyeking is offline
Posted 16th September 2005, 10:54 AM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: United States
Location: SE Coast Central Florida
Posts: 22,881
Quote:
Originally Posted by feralpigeon
So sorry to hear about your loss, but very glad to hear that you invoked the
"silver bullet" with good results. I get the Baytril liquid form that you can administer via drops @ New England Pigeon Supply for $25 and like that because I believe it is absorbed quicker into the system. One of these days would love to learn how to do injectable, but not in the cards right now. You might also want to treat for air sac mites to make sure that you have covered all respiratory bases, just a thought. "Scat" w/a couple of drops between wings on bare skin and rubbed in. It is Moxidectin. Also takes care of 'scaley face'
fp
fp,

I agree that liquid Baytril is more efficient.

Would you mind clarifying about Scat, is it the same as Moxidectin just two different products, both good for air sac mites, also what are the symptoms you are noticing with air sac mites?

Sorry about the questions, but the respiratory issues seem to be so critical, I want to be clear on it all.

Thanks a bunch...
__________________


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Maggie-NC Maggie-NC is offline
Posted 16th September 2005, 11:46 AM
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 9,856
fp - thanks for the site - I've bookmarked it.

Birdmom4ever - that took real courage to save the little finch. It sure makes you feel good, doesn't it.

maggie
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feralpigeon feralpigeon is offline
Posted 16th September 2005, 08:50 PM
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern, CA
Posts: 6,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trees Gray
fp,

I agree that liquid Baytril is more efficient.

Would you mind clarifying about Scat, is it the same as Moxidectin just two different products, both good for air sac mites, also what are the symptoms you are noticing with air sac mites?

Sorry about the questions, but the respiratory issues seem to be so critical, I want to be clear on it all.

Thanks a bunch...
Hi Treesa,

Well, damned if I can find the link that I'm looking for right now. Had a good description of air sac mite symptoms. I remember reading sneezing, head shaking, breathing difficulties as symptoms, however, as w/many illnesses, symptoms may also be for other causes. I was just suggesting that by treating the remaining birds for other respiratory related illnesses, SirPigeon w/be playing it safe by covering all bases.

If I pick up a feral, they get sprayed plus Scat as a standard along w/worming, etc.

Here is a link to a description of Scat, it is in liquid form, just a couple of drops between wings on back and it will get all mites.

http://www.birds2grow.com/art-scalyface.html

Whether this is the exact same as Moxidectin in pill form, I don't know, it
says 1000 then a symbol that looks like a backward u except the "u" has a tail on it like a "p" then forward slash mL. Yes, just like that, mL. Vetafarm puts it out. Says to treat 3to 4 times per year, for what it's worth.

Best,

fp
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feralpigeon feralpigeon is offline
Posted 16th September 2005, 09:04 PM
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern, CA
Posts: 6,651
Hi Birdmom4ever,

That is a wonderful story about the goldfinch hen, and also shows dramatically the amazing benefit of getting the right medicine in time to a seriously sick bird. That must have been a good feeling all the way around.

I think there is alot of confusion about when to pull grit when treating w/antibiotics and I notice that you mention pulling not so much in general but specifically w/antibiotics of the "tetracycline family". Do you pull your grit w/Baytril and other antibiotics?

fp
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Birdmom4ever Birdmom4ever is offline
Posted 17th September 2005, 10:17 AM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: United States
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 2,981
No. Baytril isn't a tetracycline. It's a fluoroquinolone antibiotic, different drug family. There's no need to remove grit during treatment.

Yes, it was pretty exciting to see the goldfinch respond so well, since most wild birds I've caught have died. Baytril is the drug of choice for treating salmonellosis.
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feralpigeon feralpigeon is offline
Posted 23rd September 2005, 07:09 AM
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern, CA
Posts: 6,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdmom4ever
No. Baytril isn't a tetracycline. It's a fluoroquinolone antibiotic, different drug family. There's no need to remove grit during treatment.

Yes, it was pretty exciting to see the goldfinch respond so well, since most wild birds I've caught have died. Baytril is the drug of choice for treating salmonellosis.
Thanks for that, Birdmom4ever!
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avian medicine, feral pigeon, pigeon supplies, pigeon supply, respiratory infection, sick bird, wild bird


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