Excessive water elimination

[Reti]

I will have to go through Cosmo's thread again.
He is still not well, his towel is soaked and poops are the same. He did however eat a few favourite seeds.
I will start him on Sulfatrim first until I get the sticks and if I see no improvement I might start him on Baytril.
I also think I found a vet who won't charge a fortune, hopefully so will keep that in mind.

I am glad you're feeling better, Maggie.

Reti

[Feefo]

When Wingo had this problem (hers turned out to be PMV, but she was a new rescue) we had her in a cage with a brick to perch on and put a container underneath her tail which she obligingly pooped into.

Maggie, I am sorry that you are having health problems, I hope you feel better soon.

Cynthia

[Grimaldy]

Hi Reti,

If you know anyone who is a diabetic, they will have a blood glucose meter, which is more commonly used in the USA to measure glucose. Basically you insert a prepared strip (cost about 25 cents each) dip the strip end in a blood drop and you get an instant reading. A jab with a needle in the skin of the foot will produce a blood drop.

By the way, attached is an article by Elio Schaechter from Microbe magazine, August issue about antibiotics:
Small Things Considered

The Microbe Blog (at http://www.smallthingsconsidered.us)

Elio Schaechter and Merry Youle, fellow writer and editor


Feed From the Hand That Bites You

http://schaechter.asmblog.org/schaec...rom-the-h.html

If you look for them, you’ll find them—bacteria that can feed on antibiotics, that is. Here, looking means to make an enrich*ment culture using a medium whose single carbon source is an antibiotic. Add a soil sample with its resident bacteria and look to see who, if anyone, will grow. In a recent study, researchers collected soil samples from 11 environments, including some very unlikely to have had any exposure to human-made antibiotics. They tested each soil sample against 18 antibiotics, some natural and some human-made. There were no zero scores. Every soil sample had bacteria able to eat at least one antibiotic, and bacteria from at least one soil sample were able to grow on every antibiotic. More than half of these talented organisms belong to the orders Burkholderiales and Pseudomona-dales, groups with large (6-10 Mb) ge*nomes that encode an extensive meta*bolic repertoire. The majority of the isolates were resistant to the antibiotic used in their enrichment culture and some to others as well. Overall, 11 different orders were represented, so they cannot be relegated to some obscure taxonomic corner. What to make of this? Obviously, it adds to the repertoire of bacterial bio*chemical talents. But is “antibiotophagia” just a microbiological curiosity? Or does it matter in the evolution of drug resis*tance? Is this one of our Talmudic Ques*tions?

Dantas, G., M. O. Sommer, R. D. Oluwase*gun, and G. M. Church. 2008. Bacteria sub*sisting on antibiotics. Science 32

So as careful as you can about using antibiotic, you may be feeding it instead of killing it.

[Trees Gray]

I'm so sorry to hear about your PMV survivor with the "squirts" issue.

I wouldn't hesitate giving probiotics, a drop of colloidal silver, and alfalfa to help regain the loss of minerals and micro minerals, if you haven't already.

[Larry_Cologne]

Hello Reti,

I feel this is almost too stupid to post, but my hide is pretty thick and resistant to criticism.

In spite of the many posts from others who have experienced pigeons eliminating excessive water, are you sure he is eliminating the water from the vent, and not upchucking or regurgitating in? Or a combination of the two?

You probably are sure, so as I said, it is probably a stupid observation. But a towel could be soaked overnight from either event happening.

I thought of his because the squeaker (Minnie-Coo) I recently lost was regurgitating seeds along with a lot of water.

Wishing you the best with Louis.

Larry

[Big Boy]

Reti, I'm going through the same thing right now with my birds. I know someone else in Miami with a similar problem. Lots of watery stool in my cages. I thought the same thing about the water bottle leaking. But it turned out that its coming from the birds. I've got 4 squeakers right now with their necks twisted pretty bad. (The one that showed the first symptoms is starting to recover).

I put all my birds on Aureomycin Sulmet combo.(I'm on day 9 of 14 now). Seems to be doing the trick. Even the sick squeakers' poops are looking normal. Now if their necks would only straighten out. . .

[Reti]

Big Boy sounds llike you have PMV going on in your loft.
You might want to vaccinate your helathy birds. PMV is quite common down here.

I saw him several times squirting water. When I gave him his meds I felt his crop and although he did have seeds in it he also had a lot of water.
I am giving him Sulfatrim as for now and alfalfa.

I have a glucometer, will try to figure out tonight how to work it, it's not like the ones we have at the hospital.

Reti

[Big Boy]

Originally Posted by Reti

Big Boy sounds llike you have PMV going on in your loft.
You might want to vaccinate your helathy birds. PMV is quite common down here.

I'm pretty sure I've got a combination of both parathyphoid and PMV going on right now. I've got the vaccine sitting in the fridge but since I dont know which birds are affected I haven't vaccinated. Don't want to vaccinate sick birds.

Jeff (P.S. The white bird, "Moby" I got from you earlier this year is one of the few of my whites that isn't sick. Did you vaccinate him?

[Feefo]

Good news from here, Speckles' "relapse" was very short lived and today she is fine, is flying up to her nesting box with no difficulty and she has her delighted, cooing mate with his head under her body.

I am hoping that if Louis' problem is related to PMV he will also make a spontaneous recovery.

Cynthia

[santhosh_pigeons]

PMV totally destroys the kidneys if not treated at an early stage
.......some of my birds who recovered from pmv infections have had lot of watery stools for irregular periods........ this condition is seen more in birds treated with baytril..... baytril is a wonderful drug.......it has saved many of my birds in critical condition.........baytril is also very hard on the pigeon system......it weakens the digestive system of the birds as lots of GOOD bacteria are lost in treatement and there is no way to replace them after the treatement....... probiotics can help to a degree but it does not do much good......
i use ground spinach mixed in drinking water which helps the kidney recover
i also use garlic and jaggery water to treat post infection...
this will help in some birds..... others never recover completely...... some even get too heavy and lose their flying ability.........some dont grow back feathers at a normal rate ........
it takes most pigeons atleast six months to recover completely and come back to form........
baytril is a bacteriostatic(doesnt kill bactreria but stops its reproduction) although even after treatement some birds carry the disease and never show any symptoms...... they only transmit and infect other pigeons ....and some relapse...... its a hard job to keep the disease in check.....
I recomend use of natural products and lots of patience and care for several weeks after treatment with hard antibiotics specially for pmv and salmonella related infections....
garlic, jaggery, spinach, white onions and also you could bring in grit and poops of other healthy birds to create a environment with more good bacteria.......
hope this was helpful.....
please do not misuse or underdose antibiotics

[Feefo]

baytril is a bacteriostatic(doesnt kill bactreria but stops its reproduction) although even after treatement some birds carry the disease and never show any symptoms...... they only transmit and infect other pigeons ....and some relapse...... its a hard job to keep the disease in check.....

Sorry to correct you Santosh, I wouldn't if I didn't consider this an important subject... when it comes to PMV I like to make certain that the facts are as accurate as we can get them, as there is so much incorrect information around which leads to the destruction of pigeons that have the disease.

Pigeons do not become "silent carriers" of PMV, the incubation period can be a bit longer than two weeks, but it is not that long...they stop shedding the virus 6 weeks after the first symptoms appear.

I am not clear whether you are recommending Baytril as a remedy for PMV ? It has no effect on PMV because it is a virus not a bacteria.

Cynthia

[santhosh_pigeons]

cyro,

I was talking of the bacterial infections that baytril is used to treat.
i was talking about treatement sideeffects of baytril......the loose watery droppings with green lines and excessive thirst and lazy attitude that is so often seen.
i live in india ..... there is less treatement available for pmv here except the la sota type water based vaccine which is useless.

[Feefo]

Thanks for the clarification, Santosh. I think that natural and homeopathic remedies are the only effective medication for PMV.

Cynthia

[Grimaldy]

Hi Cythia,

I have a person who is visiting Ukraine this week with instructions to pick up some anti-virals that interfere with the DNA-mRNA replication process of virus. It seems that a person can purchase any medication except opiates and their derivatives, across the counter in that country.

Is there any way to get some to you without running afoul of UK Customs?

[Feefo]

Hi Grimaldy,

Will PM you...

Cynthia