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http://www.birdvet.com.au/exotics%20...homoniasis.htm
1. What is Trichomoniasis? Trichomoniasis is a disease caused by a microscopic motile (moving) protozoa called trichomonas. 2. Where are trichomonads usually found? Trichomonads are usually found in the crop, mouth, pharynx or trachea. Other sites include the lungs and the liver. 3. What is the route of transmission? The protozoa are transmitted by direct mouth to mouth contact between two birds or in contaminated water and food. There is no aerosol transmission. There is no resistant cyst form so trichomonas does not survive in the environment for long periods. 4. What are the clinical signs of Trichomoniasis? Vomiting and regurgitation Weight loss with increased appetite - birdsoften select the smallest seed to eat as it is less painful White plaques and/or cheesy material in the crop and trachea Being "fluffed up" Green diarrhoea Dyspnoea Poor growth in young birds
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Charis If all the beasts were gone, men would die from great loneliness of spirit, for whatever happens to the beasts also happens to the man. Seattle 1736-1866  Another Life, Gone To The Birds! DO NO HARM Member, International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council 
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Yes I did, it was a highly effective medicine for canker and I'd personally purchase it instead of Spartrix. Spartrix is mostly intended to be used as a `one pill canker preventative' for fanciers who have many healthy pigeons already. Its strength is you just give each pigeon one pill instead of days of treatment in water- which is a much better way of managing canker prevention in large lofts of racing pigeons. On this forum, from everything I've read over the years, its known to be less effective for very bad canker in ferals. Thats why its only suggested as a last resort if the `better' drugs don't work. Regarding regurgitation, I've never had any regurgitation issues with metronidazole (fishzole) or ronidazole( ronivet/ronsec). Just to give you an idea, I have 12 cages here always full with sick pigeons, so I use metronidazole daily on multiple birds, without needing to pay attention to the crop being full or withholding water. Its very gentle and you can mix it with antibiotics. When I've administered Spartrix, I have always given half pill doses, on its own and it causes regurgitation. Like I said much earlier in the thread, I do believe that the way the drug is administered could be why I have these results. I've noticed that members who give pills that are quartered or halved to their birds have more issues with regurgitation, whether it be metronidazole or Spartrix. I was taught to administer canker meds differently to that-I crush the pill and mix it with maple syrup, so its dosed as a suspension. Also, some members tend to give very high doses of metronidazole, 50-200mg per pigeon, whereas I use conservative doses around 10mg twice day. Overdosing will of course add to regurgitation problems. So having had rather consistent bad experiences with Spartrix on very sick ferals , I'd use the Ronidazole over Spartrix if I had the choice. But with my healthy pet pigeons who are fat racing pigeons & King Pigeons, I'd happily use Spartrix as a preventative. Just IMO anyway. Last edited by Bella_F; 29th April 2012 at 02:29 PM.
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Bella, not to be argumentative, but I've never heard of anyone giving 50 to 200 mg. of Metronidazole. An adult bird would get about 50, and a squeaker about half that amount. And many have had birds vomit with the Metronidazole. Although it does work lots better than the Spartrix. And yes, the directions for the Spartrix say one pill to each bird, but anyone who has kept birds for any amount of time knows to give it for 3 to 5 days. One day does nothing.
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass........It's about learning to dance in the rain.
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Jay, I find it helpful to hear other information, and to try to figure out why experiences differ.
Like I said 50mg of metronidazole per bird, per day, is over twice what I give personally. As we've discussed previously, I dose according to the Avian formulary from the University of Denver: http://www.ahc.umn.edu/rar/umnuser/f...#Metronidazole It states there that the dosage for metronidazole is 50-60mg per KG, not 50-60mg per bird. I realise you use a different formulary, the one at pigeoncote. I've looked at it and I don't trust it, because all dosages are stated as mg per bird. This is not the format of Avian formularies and its easy to see there was mistake made in transcribing that document IMO. However, in other Avian formularies it has been stated that up to 200mg of metronidazole can be given once off for certain conditions. But you're not supposed to give these high doses- 50mg or up to 200mg- every day for weeks on end. At least not without Veterninary advice and not with extremely emaciated ferals with other possible illnesses as well. Last edited by Bella_F; 29th April 2012 at 03:10 PM.
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We don't just go by the source you mentioned. This is information given by vets. And taken from the formulary prepared by the Association of Pigeon Veterinarians. They are very knowledgeable and know what they are prescribing. Under dosing can hurt more than it can help.
Metronidazole (Flagyl): 25-50 mg per pigeon per day - 1250-2500 mg per gallon (4 liters) for 4-6 days. Gordon A Chalmers, DVM (Taken from Formulary prepared by the Association of Pigeon Veterinarians) Special thanks to: David E. Marx, D.V.M.
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass........It's about learning to dance in the rain.
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But what weight pigeon are these dosages for? Pigeons can weigh anywhere from 150 grams up to 1 kg, and medicine dosages for pigeons are calibrated for weight. So `per bird' dosing doesn't fit with how most Vets and formularies prescribe medicine.
The emaciated ferals that I take in weight 180 grams to 250 grams. That's why i am conservative with dosing, and it works ie. they get well and don't regurgitate during treatment.
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Metronidazole has quite a safety margin. For an average adult feral, you could give the 50 mg. For a squeaker or emaciated adult who weighs half that, you would give half that amount. That's why the dosage is from about 25 to 50 mg. And as I said before, there is a wide enough safety margin with it to be able to do that. I have had cases of canker that in giving such a low dose, it wouldn't cure the canker. But whatever works for you, then that is fine. I don't normally have a problem with regurgitation, but if I did, I would give the bird a couple of drops of Pepto, and that would take care of it. Often the bird is regurgitating because it has canker, and not from the med.
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass........It's about learning to dance in the rain.
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__________________
Charis If all the beasts were gone, men would die from great loneliness of spirit, for whatever happens to the beasts also happens to the man. Seattle 1736-1866 Another Life, Gone To The Birds! DO NO HARM Member, International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council
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Hi Jay, Yes, it does sound good like that- the safety margin sounds very broad.
The birds I treat are from the tropics so they are light compared to birds where it snows in the winter. They are lighter still because of sickness...most are emaciated with a very sharp keep bone. But if they weighed around 400 grams like the average racing pigeon, does, the dosages you gave would fit well with that. Do you reckon the dose you gave above would be for a pigeon around 400 grams, or what is average adult pigeon weight in your area, do you know? It sounds like what you're doing is working well.
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Bella, I'd say an adult feral around here is probably between 350 and 400 grams. If the bird is smaller than that, or weighs less then I would adjust the dose. That has worked here.
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass........It's about learning to dance in the rain.
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass........It's about learning to dance in the rain.
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I meant to thank you Charis as well for the great thread- its really helpful. I soak up everything you you post. From what I got from the thread, you helped the OP make a paste of Spartrix and then Metronidazole which worked very well, and they followed up with Ronidazole because it was a really bad case, and external too.
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Thanks everyone for this wealth of useful information.
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It's amazing they managed to save the little guy in the thread you linked to - so glad I'm not dealing with canker of this magnitude, but it does seem stubborn nevertheless. That yellow nodule under his tongue – I can’t puzzle it out. First it was large, after two doses of Flagyl fell off when I was feeding him, then it appeared again but smaller, and yesterday when I tried to put some metronidazole paste on it, it fell off again, but there's never any bleeding. I did not look into his throat to see how the other nodules were doing, but the pattern with those has been the expected one - they are getting smaller and disappearing. I don’t think I have the guts or skill to put the paste in his throat, and he really hates being held more than any other pigeon I’ve had, although he’s otherwise very calm and comes when in his cage to have his head scratched. He has an appointment on Tuesday, so we’ ll see then. If his throat is completely clear, and that front nodule doesn’t come back yet again, should I still do a few days of Ronidazole, just to make sure the canker is completely eradicated and won’t come back? Bella and Jay3, you're right, there does seem to be quite a range in mteronidazole dosage. I have come across this when speaking to different rehabbers, who use widely varying doses. I always think it's best to treat with the smallest dose that does the job, but I'm also afraid of under treating and creating resistance. I trust both of you as you've both had plenty of hands on experience and I value that above all else. I went by the tablets that are sold for racing pigeons (not the most scientific source, I know), which are 60mg once a day. My pigeon weights half that and I give him 45mg. which I realize is on the high end for his weight. Bella makes a good point that these dosages are not meant for 14 day periods. Gosh, I hope I haven't damaged his liver. Bella, you have 12 cages for sick pigeons! That's so wonderful (though I sincerely hope they stay empty) that so many birds can rely on such expert and compassionate help.
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Thanks for the update Eva- I'm glad you're able to take him to see someone.
The way you describe the lesions reminds me a bit of the pigeon I was treating not long ago- the biggest growth started inside the mouth, on the floor of the lower beak. It had ballooned out of the lower beak into a largeish external growth that responded quite well to metronidazole, but grew back quickly when I finished the course. There was a lot of mucous in its mouth and other growths as well....I thought some of it was probably yeast and I gave him Nilstat (Nystatin). That got rid of some of the extra growths and mucous as soon as I started with treatment. He really looked good and I thought he'd recover nicely. However that particular pigeon didn't make it unfortunately, because the underlying problem was pox. Canker has a nasty tendency to grow on top of pox lesions and I think this was what was happening to the poor little thing  This was the pigeon I swapped onto Spartrix when the growths were coming back, but he threw it up and just deteriorated over the next two days and died. I strongly suspect there was a blockage somewhere inside his GI tract , that had been getting bigger as pox tends to do I had been hoping it was a canker blockage that would get smaller with treatment, but noI don't want to scare you with my pox stories though- I don't think you should worry about it as you'd see signs in other birds if he had it. I just have it on my mind since we have an outbreak here and most of the sick birds in my care have it in addition to canker and other illnesses....I really hate this virus and I'm sooo sick of it. Quote:
 Sadly they are almost always full because of this pox virus. Four have recovered and been able to be released now though, hopefully with immunity for life.
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So, the little one saw a professional pigeon rehabber yesterday at the Wild Bird Fund - Gloria - whose expertise I trust because I've dealt with her before.
She looked into his throat and said there is still something left over. I asked for Ronsec as opposed to Spartrix, as per both Jay3's and Bella's advice, and since they were running low on Spartrix anyway, Ronsec is what I got. He took one pill of it yesterday, than no pill today and then will have a second pill tomorrow. I'm a little nervous of these two-pill treatments, but that's how it's supposed to work. She also told me his Flagyl dose was way too high, and that for a pigeon 250-300gms she gives 15mg of Flagyl a day! She is one of those rehabbers who dose metronidazole on the low end, though she has a colleague who doses at 3 times that. Anyway, asked for a wormer and was given it , as well as Avertex against coccidia. Not sure if he needs the Avertex with his droppings looking ok, so haven't given it yet, but perhaps better to be on the safe side. He also got a vit B Complex injection to boost his immune system and vitamin A. She said she gives vit A for skin issues since he's bald around the beak and for pox, even though she doesn't think he has pox. Bella, this might be something you already know about, but if not it might be useful to you since you deal with so many pox victims. Gloria really thinks the vitamin A helps for pox. She said she has noticed that after she gives it the lesions turn black and fall off with in a day or two. She gives only one very big dose. Three gel caps of vitamin A - each 10,000 IU. She said it is something to do only once because of liver damage. She has noticed it's better to give them a boost with a single large dose than to give a small doses continuously. So that's the update on the little one, who was very stressed after the trip, but is feeling better today.
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