Gouged Back/Downed Bird

[feralpigeon]

This bird has a patch of feathers off it's back about 2" and a hole. Hole is about 1/4" in diameter, no profuse bleeding. Is breathing
ok, wings and legs OK. Will butterflying and Baytril get it? How big of hole can
mend on own?

[Feefo]

Little Red Feet had a small hole on her chest when I got her, I didn’t realise then that I had to keep it clear of scabbing so that it could heal from the outside. The result was that it scabbed and she developed a tracking abscess that had formed a plug of necrotic tissue as big as the first joint of my thumb by the time I realised there was something wrong. When I removed that there was a BIG hole.

That time I didn’t make the mistake of letting it close before it had healed from inside, so I removed all scabbing and flushed it with sterile saline twice a day and the wound eventually healed properly.

I think it is the pigeon’s inability to produce pus like we do that makes sealing open wounds dangerous. If possible I keep them open until healed.

Cynthia

[Reti]

Even much bigger wounds will heal with no problem as long as the wound isn't infected.
Clean the would out before butterflying. Baytril sounds good.

Reti

[feralpigeon]

Thanks Cynthia and Reti,

Just wanted to make sure. I have Saline Solution, Bacitracin, I'll get some butterflys today, in the meantime, it's gauze bandaged w/papertape.

Poor thing was getting gang pecked by the rest of the flock. I couldn't
believe my eyes. I know this one--one bumblefoot. Too bad. Took the
medicine in crop w/out complaint, think it knows it needs help, and knows me,
so that helps. Gotta run to work.
Thanks again for speedy reply.

fp

[pdpbison]

Hi fp,


Oh sheeeeesh...

Thank goodness, unlike Mammals, Birds can continue to breathe with punctures or 'holes' in their body or backs or chests. Their respiratory system does not rely on the differential air pressure produced by a diaphram like ours does, where, if it were us, our lungs would collapse.

As others mentione above, the little I know would affirm that fending off infections is important, and for the hole to be allowed to heal ( which it will ) while the inside is kept clean and free of infection...and kept bandaged or covered for cleanliness.

This is a good reminder for us all, also, to remember to thoroughly inspect any incomeing injured or downed Birds, since holes or punctures can sometimes be less than obvious.

As allways, efforts to supply the best possible nutrition and additional spoecial nutrients for their mending, would be benificial.

Good luck to you both fp...!

Best wishes,

Phil
Las Vegas

[Skyeking]

We just thoroughly clean wound and drown it with colloidal silver, dry and inspect damage and either butterfly small wound or suture depending on how big it is, and how long ago the injury happened, continue nutrition, colloidal silver, garlic, and etc.

Treesa

[feralpigeon]

Thanks everyone, for your posts.

This injury, w/the exception of the horrible beating it was getting from it's peer group reminds me of the bird I found a while back w/a patch of feathers missing on it's back and the tail flopping. I know I speculated that possibly a car had done it. Now I think they are both failed hawk attacks. Both of them seem to have sprained leg(s) w/out breaks. They use them but drag their bodies around w/wings. And of course this time, the puncture wound. The last one was fully releasable. And judging from how spunky this one is tonight, I'm hoping this pij will also be releasable. But what a bunch of "buds" to send the poor thing back to. I'm telling you, if anyone had described to me what I saw today, I would have thought they were embellishing to the point of making it up. I think the human equivalent might be stoning someone to death in the town square.

The last 3/16's to1/4" of its tongue was a grey to darkish grey this a.m.
We'll see how it all goes.

fp

[feralpigeon]

I've just spent quite some time w/injured pij. Quite a mess. The tissue looks
like it's receded a bit from this morning. I see one layer of tissue, fairly thick, that sits on top of another lower level of tissue that looks undamaged. But the
puncture wound looks more like a gash now. Could be better than a half an inch wide, and the skin on one side is compromised as well. Again, no real bleeding to speak of. The pij is strong and alert in spite of it all.

I'm concerned that this might be too large to knit on its own. I cleaned it up
real well, and put two butterflys on it with just a light film of bacitracin on the
open flesh, then a couple of one by's and wrapped along w/wing on that side.

[feralpigeon]

The butterflies are holding, and the bird is very alert this a.m. Got it's Baytril
and some soaked kibble. The avian vet is open late tonight, so I'll see how it
looks after work. If it looks like it's closing ok, if not, off to Castro Valley for stiches. The nurses put bacitracin on wounds--a big gob on bandage--to keep moist so it heals from inside out so I hope that's ok. GS tends to dry, so I was afraid of putting powder on it right now.

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi FP,

Sounds like good updates and things are going well. I was wondering, do you think aloe vera holds any potential here? It's been known to have amazing healing properties. I'm sure it wouldn't do any better than the antibiotic creams you're using but perhaps for other times/pigeons. I like natural products myself when possible.

I bought some from Foys awhile back and it's even supposed to do wonders for the pigeons internally. It's cold pressed and it's missing the yellow sap so that it doesn't give the bird the runs. I give it to my pigeons about once a month internally. Otherwise, you can use it topically in a gel form or the liquid for oral use.

[feralpigeon]

Originally Posted by Pigeonpal2002

Hi FP,

Sounds like good updates and things are going well. I was wondering, do you think aloe vera holds any potential here? It's been known to have amazing healing properties. I'm sure it wouldn't do any better than the antibiotic creams you're using but perhaps for other times/pigeons. I like natural products myself when possible.

I bought some from Foys awhile back and it's even supposed to do wonders for the pigeons internally. It's cold pressed and it's missing the yellow sap so that it doesn't give the bird the runs. I give it to my pigeons about once a month internally. Otherwise, you can use it topically in a gel form or the liquid for oral use.

Hi Brad,

I'm going on assumption that this wound needs to heal from inside out, and
if I need correction--please anyone. I am familiar w/aloe vera and frequently just break a "leaf" off, crack open and put sap on directly, it is excellent for healing. My experience would be that it also has a drying effect and I think until the deeper tissue starts to knit, my gut is telling me to keep moist and
bacteria free. That's why a thin film of the bacitracin, can't have it coming out or butterflies won't stick. It's a bad wound and I don't have enuf miles
under my belt w/this type of thing in a Pijie. If it's not looking better after
work, the avian rehab will have another of my pijies for his flock! If it looks
better, once it starts knitting up, I think the aloe vera would be a great idea.
I have a bottle of it made for humans on the shelf that I'll use. Thanks for the
reminder Brad.

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi FP,


Yes, sorry...I wasn't suggesting you change your course of action here at all. Rather just another alternative for down the road or even for this pigeon for internal use for "extra" healing. Your thinking sounds right to me. I wasn't aware that you used aloe already so I was just bringing up the subject for others as well to take note of and to try possibly.

[Reti]

Also another thing you can give po is vit C. Helps boost the immune system and helps in wound healing by promoting the formation of collagen.
You can purchase (if you don't have it already) the human 200mg tablets and give 1/4 once a day for several days. There is no risk of overdosing since it is a water soluble vitamin and the excess is eliminated.

Reti

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Reti,

I HATE to disagree here, but I do believe that there are concerns with Vitamin C and pigeons. Pigeons produce their own Vitamin C rather than assimilating it from other sources. I might be wrong here, but I think there is a potential of them overdosing on Vit C otherwise. Sorry, not trying to step on your toes, but I know I've read this somewhere before. Just not 100% on whether they can O/D on it.

[feralpigeon]

Hi FP,Yes, sorry...I wasn't suggesting you change your course of action here at all. Rather just another alternative for down the road or even for this pigeon for internal use for "extra" healing. Your thinking sounds right to me. I wasn't aware that you used aloe already so I was just bringing up the subject for others as well to take note of and to try possibly.

It's OK Brad, I understand, and good to make sure folks know about other
remedies. I have a goldenseal/myrh ointment, golden seal caps and aloe vera liquid on hand.
They are excellent natural remedies, my concern is over the depth of the wound and keeping moist while knitting @ such a depth. Although it might just put some nice finishing touches on the healing .

Aloe Vera is a dessicant among other things, so again, it has a drying action.
It's used medicinally in veterinary medicine internally as a purgative and externally as a dessicant.

Among the many herbal books available, there is also an herbal PDR which
you might be interested in knowing about, although, I generally look in several different sources before drawing conclusions.



Also another thing you can give po is vit C. Helps boost the immune system and helps in wound healing by promoting the formation of collagen. You can purchase (if you don't have it already) the human 200mg tablets and give 1/4 once a day for several days. There is no risk of overdosing since it is a water soluble vitamin and the excess is eliminated.

Reti

I didn't know about the formation of collagen, that would be good here. Medpet carries a combo of water soluable E and C in powder form for routine use that would seem to be good to have on hand for emergencies/injuries. I remember C as also being very good for sprains/strains/bruising. I can pick up human version tonight @ store.

I would think it OK if Medpet offers it, right? Maybe Brad can find more info
for folks in meantime.

It looks like wound is closing @ bottom , although edges of wound are drying out. Alot of bruising spots on back. Poor thing took a beating @ some
kind of predator's hands and then from it's own. I don't like the drying around
the edges--Pij is alert, one leg seems to be doing better.

Thanks to both of you for your comments and suggestions and support.

fp