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#1
11th August 2008, 11:00 PM
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healthy baby pigeon just died...I have a couple that are full brother and sister but are not nestmates that is very good at raising their baby but somehow at about 2-3 weeks old, one of them dies. The baby looks, feels and acts very healthy and the next morning I find it dead. The remaining baby grows without any problem. It's very puzzling cause there are no signs. This has happened 3 times now and only to this couple. The only thing I can think of is that the male was once sick with canker and he almost died but he recovered and is one of my best cocks. I gave him Tetracyclin (not sure of the correct spelling) while he was sick. Does anybody have a clue? Should I seperate them and remate with another?
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#2
12th August 2008, 02:55 AM
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One thing that can happen is if one or both of the adult birds is a paratyphoid carrier. No symptoms, but can carry it to babies through feeding. One baby dies, other one lives. I don't say this is the case here, but it is quite possible given it's happened before.
If no other explanation comes to light, maybe best to split the pair up and isolate for a while and give a course of Baytril once the surviving baby is self feeding and pretty much able to cope. No more eggs until they have the course. What I don't know is if there is a danger of the survivor being a carrier. But maybe someone else has found other answers to this problem. John
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 Pigeons know more than we think - and think more than we know.
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#3
12th August 2008, 09:12 AM
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You could though, so as to not risk another baby dieing, separate these two birds and give them some medication. That way, which ever one is THE one would be cured. I think...............I'm actually not SURE that a "carrier" of Paratyphoid can be cured. Guess you better wait on someone who knows for susre.
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 Renee www.lovebirdsloft.com It's FOOTBALL season again!! COWBOYS 8 - 4 It is the greatest of all mistakes to do nothing because you can only do a little. -Sydney Smith, writer and clergyman (1771-1845)
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#4
12th August 2008, 09:20 AM
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I had the same problem with a pair of pigeons I purchased to breed for show. The parents had no signs of illness, were great breeders but I was always loosing at least one of the young in a short time. The surviving bird would grow up with no problems. All my birds are vaccinated, given natural immune boosters, vitamins,etc. etc. So I decided to do the extreme, which I thought would maybe give me better insight to what was happening. I pulled the babies from the nest at about 2 weeks of age to hand feed them myself to see what would happen. Where there were two babies hatched one always came down with canker. Where there was only one baby hatched 50% of those had canker. Young pulled from the nest the day of hatch, never had any canker or any health problems. These are the young I kept for future breeding. The parents I did not want to separate since both may be carriers and I did not want them to breed anymore, so they are kept together, allowed to nest, and their eggs are replaced with dummies. Because these were a rare breed, I choose to pull young from the nest as a last resort. I do not believe young should ever be pulled from a nest unless it is the only way to identify a problem and you are dedicated to the birds, 'cause it is sure exhausting feeding little ones over a long period to prove something. This was my experience. I hope it helps.
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#5
12th August 2008, 10:53 AM
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Thank you for your input.
Are you sure it wasn't another disease your birds have/had? Canker is usually curable-when treated early, it is usually a symptom of paratyphoid when one baby dies and the other survives, with possible exceptions.
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Treesa I don't want to gain the whole world, & lose my soul... http://changeourhearts.wordpress.com...-lose-my-soul/  http://community.webshots.com/user/duiven007 Last edited by Trees Gray; 12th August 2008 at 10:55 AM.
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#6
12th August 2008, 02:08 PM
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Trees Gray you are right about symptoms being the same which makes it harder to pinpoint the problem. For an example, this past spring I had five separate hatches from five different pairs of birds go off in a two day period. Each pair were proven breeders, vaccinated and healthy. The young were fine and had an excellent start. All of these babies were found dead in the nest within a nine day period. All of these birds were in the same loft. I was devastated. The parents were all fine and I didn't have a clue what happened. I set new nest bowls and decided only two of the pairs will sit on eggs in case I end up having to pull young. About three days after that I happened to go into the coop to check on the birds and something catches my eye running along the wall. A mouse! I got a broom and bucket and caught it. There it was, a little brown field mouse, cute as a button with those little bulgy eyes. It ran around and around the bottom of the bucket. I thought it was strange how it was only running one way, to the left. Out of curiosity I got a stick and tried making it run in the . oppisite direction. It couldn't. In fact, when I forced it to, it started to have seizure-like syptoms, and it's head would twist over it's back, then it would flip over. I was stunned. A paratyphoid mouse. I was positive now on why I lost those baby pigeons. The parents were vaccinated, but the babies were not. I kept the mouse a couple of days to be sure of my diagnosis. I gave it food and water, but even though it tried to eat, it would convulse and head would twist over the back, then flip backwards. If you startled it, it would run forward, convulse, then flip backwards. Same syptoms in paratyphoid/pmv pigeons. So far, the parent birds are doing great. No signs of illness and vaccinating them I believe was a life saver. However, I have had a whole summer of infertile eggs from them, so it will be next years breeding season to see the long term effect on them. One thing I noticed, canker doesn't cause infertile eggs, but paratyphoid sure seems to.
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#7
12th August 2008, 04:20 PM
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I believe Baytril is still the drug of choice for treating paratyphoid/salmonellosis. We had it in our loft about six years ago, also brought in by rodents. I put them all on Baytril (in the drinking water) for 30 days and had no more problems. And we made sure we sealed everything off so rats and mice couldn't get access to the loft or feed. I vaccinate with Sal-Bac but I've read that it's not 100% effective.
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#8
16th August 2008, 02:21 AM
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We do have mouse and/or rats, also alot of wild doves and assorted wild birds visit my loft. I know that Sparrows constantly enters my loft thru my trap door and I have seen my pigeons chase/ attack them off their nestboxes. I didn't know rats/ mice are sources of Paratyphoid but I have not seen any in my loft. I've been checking on my birds late at night since I get home late but I have not seen any hanging in or around the loft. I'm leaning more toward the cock being infected than the hen but not sure. Once a bird is infected with Paratyphoid, is it a carrier for life or can it be cured and cleaned out? Is there any other drug I can use other than Baytril for Paratyphoid? It seems like everyone is either out of stock or no longer selling them. Does anyone know a store that still have Baytril in stock and is able to ship to Hawaii? I made a recent big order from Foys but i did not receive the wormout tabs and Doxyty tabs and I have emailed last Monday but have not heard from them since. Maybe they can ship some Paratyphoid medication along with it.
Thanks for all the input guys/ gals.... Eric
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Last edited by ezemaxima; 16th August 2008 at 02:25 AM.
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#9
16th August 2008, 03:04 AM
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Hey Eric,
I have some divet tablets and 4 in 1 that I can send to you tomorrow.
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 --------------------------------- Aloha, Dexter  
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#10
16th August 2008, 02:37 PM
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Baytril is still your best bet. Those other drugs may not clear it. I've heard horror stories such as "the bird will be a carrier for life" but have not found it to be true. Treatment with Baytril followed by vaccination with Sal-Bac eliminated the problem. This place still seems to sell it: http://www.discountpetdrugs.com/baytrilbybayer.html
You can also get it from a vet, which would be better because he can give you the correct dilution instructions. It doesn't have to be an avian vet--small animal vets prescribe Baytril for dogs and cats. Alternatively you could get Cipro made for humans, which is the same antibiotic. It's available from Meds Mexico. I've ordered from this company before and it took awhile to get it, but the service was fine. http://medsmex.com/store/home.php You really must find a way to keep wildlife out of your loft. The potential for them to bring in various diseases is high.
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#11
19th August 2008, 12:56 PM
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Thanks Birdmom4ever but discountpetdrugs.com requires a prescription to be sent to them. I'd rather see a vet here and get it from them especially shipping can get pricy to hawaii.
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#12
19th August 2008, 01:03 PM
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Thanks for the offer but this is no rush for me. I'll just have to stop them from breeding until I can get both of them medicated plus they're moulting right now. I'm so pissed off with Foy's right now cause the 4 wormout tab and 1 doxyty tab I ordered from them was not in the box and now they are telling me that a claim needs to be put in to USPS and the process would take about 30 days. Then they need to check the boxes it got shipped in but I already started using half of what I ordered from them the day I received it and threw away the boxes. Plus both of my aluminum basket came in with dents and crease on them. Never ordering again from those guys.
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#13
19th August 2008, 05:56 PM
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No problem Eric,
Too bad about your fiasco with Foy's and the USPS. Knock on wood, that I haven't had any problems with them. Let me know if you need anything.
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--------------------------------- Aloha, Dexter
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#14
19th August 2008, 08:17 PM
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#15
20th August 2008, 12:12 PM
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I guess I've been fortunate because I've never had a problem with Foy's. The only issues I've had with any of the pigeon supply houses were shipments delayed due to back-ordered products, but that happens. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Foy's. Jedd's is a little closer being in California, but I don't know if it makes that much difference--it's still going to be expensive to ship to Hawaii.
Anyway, I do hope you can get a vet to help you with Baytril. Best to let them rest and molt right now anyway.
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