Help me please

[lostflight]

hey guys i have an epidemic. My birds have recently been dying one by one. It seems like every other week I am losing a bird.

I don't know the cause of it. My loft is cleaned well, I have treated every bird with 4-1 pills and worm powder. Still they continue to die. It has been going for over a month now, I thought i could treat it but now it appears too big for me to handle.

Please help me out.

The birds show very little signs of sickness, usually its just one day you go in the loft and you find the bird sitting in the corner puffed up. About 4-6 hours later the bird can be found dead even when placed in quarantine.

I also noticed that some of the birds that died were the ones get their feed with held because they refuse to trap. At first I thought it was starvation but they are not skinny and even then continue to die.

Also it seems like new additions are dying faster than the birds that were originally in the loft. Maybe they have built an immunity against this disease, I don't know.

I am at a loss please help me. I don't know what to do.

[Naunnie]

I'm so sorry for your loss. Maybe having a vet do a necropsy would pin point the problem

[naturegirl]

Have you checked the new ones for any diseases? They could be carrying it to the rest of the group. Birds usually don't show signs of illness till it is too late. Have you checked their crops for canker?

[naturegirl]

Are you sure no one would be poisoning them?

[plamenh]

Post some pictures of birds and their poop.
Check bird for smell coming from their mouth. What is the age of the birds. When did it started. Any respiratory problems. Discharge from eyes, nostrils, ears. Any changes in the loft. Quality of food. How many birds you have. All these details would help to determine what can it be.

My guess would be:
1. Canker
2. Adeno virus YBS
3. Giardia or some fungal poisoning.

Steps to be taken:

I would separate birds.
Stop breeding.
Contact Vet and do full check on the birds. (if this is an option)
Change their food. ACV in the water.
Treat for canker with Spartrix for 5 days 1 tablet a day.
Find Ampicilin tablets and start treating them.

[Charis]

Originally Posted by plamenh

Post some pictures of birds and their poop.
Check bird for smell coming from their mouth. What is the age of the birds. When did it started. Any respiratory problems. Discharge from eyes, nostrils, ears. Any changes in the loft. Quality of food. How many birds you have. All these details would help to determine what can it be.

My guess would be:
1. Canker
2. Adeno virus YBS
3. Giardia or some fungal poisoning.

Steps to be taken:

I would separate birds.
Stop breeding.
Contact Vet and do full check on the birds. (if this is an option)
Change their food. ACV in the water.
Treat for canker with Spartrix for 5 days 1 tablet a day.
Find Ampicilin tablets and start treating them.

I agree. It can also be a combination of things that are killing your birds.
Do rodents visit the loft ?
Personally...I think any of the combination pills are close to worthless because they don't have enough of any 1 ingredient for a cure.

[lostflight]

I will get the pictures up later, my internet connection is too slow to be uploading anything.

I've had birds that are from 02-09 died so I don't think it is age related. Loft and feed are like they have always been, just a few new comers. I currently hold 6 cocks, 4 hens, and 5 young birds. So 15 rollers in total.

I checked them all this morning, nothing unusual about the birds, just that they sit motionless about 4-6 hours before they die so I don't know who is gonna be next till its too late.

ACV is currently in the water, I will have to check on those pills mentioned. I couldn't find any clinics that do necropsy on the birds, they only do dogs and cats around here, I may have to look out of the cities.

No one goes inside the loft but me. I have it wired so if anyone went in the alarm would go off all day. LOL

Everyone is eating fine, no signs of canker however.

I did once had a weasel come in, he killed 2 of my birds but I had blocked every opening and no problem since.

However, the epidemic started before that, about mid August I noticed one of my hens breathing heavily and kinda drooping wings. Her droppings were a little runny, very smelly (almost like a kid's) and in large amounts at a time.

I treated her with the 4-1 and worm powder. She recovered, is currently in the loft, I felt that maybe I had not taken her out for quarantine fast enough.
Than slowly they started dying. At first it was at a very slow pace, one at a time so I thought maybe they were just old (the first two birds were 2000-01)

Than it sorta picked up and died a little. I believe it may have started from the hen. Some birds have been in there for a while with no trouble (immune?) while others are dying even some old residents are dying.

[Charis]

Please reviews them comments I have made in response to your post.

Originally Posted by lostflight

I will get the pictures up later, my internet connection is too slow to be uploading anything.

I've had birds that are from 02-09 died so I don't think it is age related. Loft and feed are like they have always been, just a few new comers. I currently hold 6 cocks, 4 hens, and 5 young birds. So 15 rollers in total.

If Pigeons are carrying an illness or parasite and managing ok...stress and bring out a full blown episode. This time of year, weather changes can be stressful. That's why it's a good time to treat for canker, worms and coccidia, but not in a combo pill.

I checked them all this morning, nothing unusual about the birds, just that they sit motionless about 4-6 hours before they die so I don't know who is gonna be next till its too late.

Birds pretend they are well even when they are sick. they do this as a defense against predators because a visibly sick bird in the wild would be an easy target . Once you notice they are sick, they are really, really sick. Every 1 days a bird is sick is equal to 1 week for a human.

ACV is currently in the water, I will have to check on those pills mentioned. I couldn't find any clinics that do necropsy on the birds, they only do dogs and cats around here, I may have to look out of the cities.

Where are you located. I may be able to find some one. Do you have a veterinary college near-by? Metronidazole will also work and can be ordered from all the Pigeon supply. I like the liquid form from Foys. It mixes nicely in the water. Individual treatment is always best though and it's important to rotate medications.

No one goes inside the loft but me. I have it wired so if anyone went in the alarm would go off all day. LOL

Everyone is eating fine, no signs of canker however.

Most often, canker is not visible but internal.I did once had a weasel come in, he killed 2 of my birds but I had blocked every opening and no problem since.

However, the epidemic started before that, about mid August I noticed one of my hens breathing heavily and kinda drooping wings. Her droppings were a little runny, very smelly (almost like a kid's) and in large amounts at a time.

Could be canker and coccidia.

I treated her with the 4-1 and worm powder. She recovered, is currently in the loft, I felt that maybe I had not taken her out for quarantine fast enough.
Than slowly they started dying. At first it was at a very slow pace, one at a time so I thought maybe they were just old (the first two birds were 2000-01)

2001 birds are not old. Pigeons can live 20 years or so.

Than it sorta picked up and died a little. I believe it may have started from the hen. Some birds have been in there for a while with no trouble (immune?) while others are dying even some old residents are dying.

[spirit wings]

did you quarantine new birds?, If not it could be a number of things, I would talk to a vet and see what it is, guessing on what meds to give them at this point would be a shot in the dark.

[plamenh]

Forget about 4-1 medicine (throw it away). Charis told you, they do nothing.
The description of the hen is more of the one that is to lay egg and she recovered.
Separate them. Every second day give each bird small piece of garlic in the beak (size of pop corn). Change water daily and ACV in the water - small amounts.
Wash your hands after handling each bird.
Order Spartrix and try to find Ampicilin.
By the way what is the temperature in the loft?

[lostflight]

The hen did look like she was gonna lay, however, I got no eggs from her this year.
The temperature fluctuates with the enviroment. It has not gotten extremely cold yet. I would say the coldest so far is about 45-50 F.

I am located in St. Paul, MN.
I will be looking into the meds ASAP.

Thanks for the help guys. Really appreciate it.

[Charis]

Originally Posted by lostflight

The hen did look like she was gonna lay, however, I got no eggs from her this year.
The temperature fluctuates with the enviroment. It has not gotten extremely cold yet. I would say the coldest so far is about 45-50 F.

I am located in St. Paul, MN.
I will be looking into the meds ASAP.

Thanks for the help guys. Really appreciate it.

Treat them all with Albon for coccidia. I believe Foy's carry it and New England Pigeon Supply.

I'll look for a vet for you this afternoon.

[Charis]

Here you go...

Ark Pet Hospital Pa
151 Silver Lake Rd NW
Saint Paul, MN, 55112
(651) 633-0567

[Charis]

This doctor is not an avian vet but I just had a conversation with him and he is knowledgeable. He also understands his limitations. He can send one of your birds, that has passed, to the university for a necropsy. If you have a dead bird...please do refrigerate it. Don't freeze it.


Brookdale Animal Hospital
3000 Brookdale Dr
Minneapolis, MN, 55444
(763) 560-6906

[lostflight]

thank you charis. I will call him when I get on break.

(don't let my supervisor know I am on the forum)