Help seriously needed

[MaryOfExeter]

I'm afraid of the responses I'm gonna get...but...As much as it hurts to type this, I'm not getting anywhere unless I get as many opinions as I can on what's happening to my birds. My worst nightmare is happening and I don't know what it is or how to stop it, SOMETHING has gotten into my aviary and I have a feeling by the end of the week I won't have a single bird left in there.
This all started Monday afternoon, when I noticed two of my hens dead. Everyone looked perfectly fine before, even the hens looked healthy before. I didn't see a single sign of diarrhea, canker...anything. They didn't even feel like they had gone light first. Last week we had this huge storm hit us, and flooded everything, which we didn't expect. I'm thinking whatever has gotten my birds, it's because the storm washed it in here. I told my dad and we moved the aviary to a new grassy area to leave any sickness behind. The only antibiotic I have is terramycin, so that's what I started them on. Once again, everyone else looked fine Monday.
Then yesterday, I come home to find about 5 more birds had died, and a few looked sick this time. I isolated them, and they too died within hours. Today so far I've lost more, so within 3 days, I've lost several birds. I've got all my separate cages full with the birds that looked a little if-y this morning, and other healthy ones to treat and prevent anything from happening.
I don't know what to do, what happened...I don't know what to think. Me and my dad both are clueless and frustrated because we feel like all we can do is sit and watch them go The symptoms I've seen are vomiting whole food, some visibly had diarrhea, and a few gushed water out of their beak when I picked them up, right before they passed. Sounds a lot like Adeno from what I've read, since they're going so quickly from the time they even show signs of being unwell. We've narrowed it down to Adeno and fungi, but those are just our guesses. First I thought maybe canker/wet canker that causes diarrhea and vomiting, but the mouth shows no signs, and my dad...dissected...one of the dead ones, and again no canker anywhere that we could see. The only thing that looked abnormal was this sticky green stuff that was attached to the inside of the crop. We have no clue what that is?? They had eaten a lot of grass, but that stuff...was not grass, there's just no way.

I know the first suggestion, go get the vet. We're working on that. In the meantime I'm just looking for all the help I can get. I searched and saw Kippy had a problem sort of similar from the sounds of it. Can someone help? I feel really, really horrible about this. This sorta stuff....just...isn't supposed to happen. Also by the way, all the birds currently in there look fine, but I know they probably aren't fine. Any that looked sick I've isolated. I don't know if I'll be able to stop it, but I would like to know how to prevent this from happening again.

[Charis]

Becky...look at this link and see if you notice any other symptoms.
What preventative treatments have you given your birds and how long ago, such as worming, treating for canker, etc? Are they on a schedule?
http://www.internationalmodenaclub.c...r/symptoms.htm

[rainbows]

Becky, be sure you take a dead bird for an autopsy when you go to the vet

[spirit wings]

Im so sorry about this heartbreak...its so scary....I would take a bird to the vet or a dead one so she/he can run test....you maybe right about your diagnosis but in the long run you will want to know for sure....so i would start running tests do a process of elimination....i know a avian vet at another hosp. if you need me to ask her any questions just let me know..stay strong.

[MaryOfExeter]

Yes, that's one of the things I really want to make sure gets done. I can't go anywhere until my dad gets home though, so I'm hoping everyone holds on a little while longer.
At least by doing an autopsy or any other tests, we can know for sure what they have.

Charis,
I'm not really on a schedule medicine wise. I try not to give them much more medicine than I have to unless a problem comes up. The last time I wormed them was a few months ago, and I was actually planning on worming them again this week just in case, until this happened of course. The last time I gave them any form of medicine before this, was about a month ago, when I gave them some sulmet. From then I've just had regular ACV in the water. Like I said, nothing's changed until this storm came.
As far as the symptoms go, I'm fixing to go back outside to take a closer look and see if I find anything else.

[Dezirrae]

I am soooo sorry to hear this news Becky -- the heartarch & frustration must be incredible I wish I has any ideas to suggest for immediate treatment.

I know you're a little over 2 hrs from Raleigh, NC, but it might be worth calling the College of Veterinary Medicine (NC State University) -- http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vth/clinical_services.html

From what I've read they are one of the top rated Veterinary Teaching Hospital's in the country and would certainly have the necessary equipment and expertise to maybe help diagnose what's happening. They may be able to do some analysis on one of the bird's you've lost to figure out what that green stuff is that you & your Dad saw lining the crop. They may even have come across it already (depending on how wide spread the flooding was/is in your area). At any rate - I'd say it's worth making a phone call. And hey - use your age to your advantage too! Sometime people are more willing to go out of their way to help a teenager who "might be considering veterinary school" (*wink* - maybe? - *wink*) [an aside - I think you'd make a great vet]. In any case, you get the idea I'm sure

If there is ANY way at all that I can help please let me know. Good luck & keep us posted!

[Pidgey]

If it's viral, then you're unlikely to get immediate confirmation. Cytology on the green might be helpful. The only thing that I can think of that you might do to help them is to get them some more feed from a different place in case there's a bunch of aflatoxins in the stuff that you've got. Also, make sure that they stay warm. It sounds like their systems are shutting down in very short order. If, in the hours before they die, you don't see their respiration rates going up then it's attacking their central nervous systems directly. If it were possible, you'd separate a few healthy-seeming individuals and use different mediations on them as possible preventatives. A really bad Chlamydophila outbreak can kill that fast but you'd be getting sick, too. The Tetracycline that you've got could stop that if that's what it was.

In any case, you're going to have to note all behavior and symptoms of an individual bird that you're losing with respect to the timeline--that will help with a diagnosis, even for the vet.

Pidgey

[Charis]

Becky...I would thoroughly clean and disinfect your coop including all dishes you use for food and water.
Given this is a critical situation, you really don't have time to order and try medications from a pigeon supply. I think that to save the remaining birds, you must seek veterinary care immediately.
After this crisis has past, I would encourage you to treat your birds regularly for worms and canker and keep the coop as clean as you can. You also need to create your own first aid kit that includes, at the very least a canker treatment, wormer and coccidia medication. You can add to it as time goes on.

[Trees Gray]

I am so sorry to hear about this happening in your loft.

After going thru several hurricanes, and my worries....the only thing I can think of is.. are your birds eating any seed that was soaked or is there any standing water inside your coop anywhere and on what surface? They can get very sick from eating wet seed that has sat.

[MaryOfExeter]

First off thank you for all the help and kind words so far.
I went out to check the two birds I have in isolation, as well as a dead one that must have passed in the last hour.
Seems like with every bird, a little something is different. Didn't see any signs of canker in the birds before, but now I think it maybe a different story, based on these two birds.

First bird I call 'RC'. She appears alert and okay, but she's been sitting on the bottom of the cage the whole time, and is reluctant to move. The first thing I noticed when I picked her up, was an almost orange color liquid that dripped on me from her vent. With another look I saw green (not bright/light, or dark, just...green) droppings blocking her vent. They were more liquid than they're supposed to be, but I can't really discribe it. Opening her mouth I saw it was normal color, didn't see a problem with excess saliva, but I did see one small white bump in the back of the throat. Pox? Canker? I don't know. But it was white and it didn't look like you could scrape it off like canker, but more under the skin like pox lesions. There was only one. RC is also a bit underweight, keel sticking out a bit, but nothing drastic. Couldn't feel any food in her crop. Also looked like she was panting a bit. Her mouth was slightly open and her body looked like it had to work to breathe.

The next bird was hard to examine. The minute I opened his beak, water came out and I was afraid to try again in fear he might drown himself. I managed to open it a litttle bit the second time, just enough to see two small yellow spots on the side of the beak, in the mouth. Looked more like canker this time instead of RC's 'pox'. Again the water came so I gave up opening his beak. With a couple quick glances I didn't see anything else that stood out on him. He too kept his beak open a bit, but could stand and walk, and didn't look like he was having as hard a time breathing. He's also a little underweight, hasn't eaten today, but his eyes are alert also.

As for the dead bird, it was hard to tell since it was already stiff and cool. I did notice before she passed that she was like RC, not wanting to stand, but not even wanting to hold her head up much. I looked at her vent, and saw a yellow tinted white paste. No green or brown whatsoever.
Seems like I ended up with a rainbow of different poops!

Now that the sun has come out, no one in the aviary is fluffed up or sickly looking. Everyone's just relaxing and enjoying the sun. All the males, whether they had been vomiting before or not, were they're normal selves...showing off It seems like the hens are the main victims here, the boys are holding up pretty strong.

Dezirrae,
Yeah this isn't easy, which is why I'm here and not at school today. This morning I just wasn't in any shape to go take a bunch of hard classes. NC State is in the top 5 veterinary schools in the US I believe, so I'll see what I can do. In fact that is where I plan on going to be an avian vet. I'll definitely call if nothing else.

Pidgey,
Well the good thing is I'm not sick, besides allergies, so in that case Chlamydophila may not be it. I feed all my birds the same food, and only the ones in that aviary are sick. Oh wait. One thing I did do to the feed, is lately I've given the birds some oil+brewers yeast/garlic powder on the food. I didn't give them a lot, and it was only for one day, but could have have contributed to the problem? Again it didn't effect any of my other birds. That stuff always seemed to help my young birds. I'll see if we can go get some food from somewhere else just in case. The current mix has a lot of big stuff like peas and popcorn, do you think I should try to find something a little easier to digest and keep down, for the birds that are vomiting? If so, what do you suggest?
Hmmm...let's see. I do think most, if not all the birds that I noticed were bad off before they went, did have some difficulty breathing. Right now all the birds have sun so everyone's warm. It gets worse when the sun goes down, so I'm gonna have to find a way to keep the weak warm. I'm pretty sure we can find some heat lamps or something around here to help.

[Trees Gray]

Originally Posted by Trees Gray

I am so sorry to hear about this happening in your loft.

After going thru several hurricanes, and my worries....the only thing I can think of is.. are your birds eating any seed that was soaked or is there any standing water inside your coop anywhere and on what surface? They can get very sick from eating wet seed that has sat.

Have they been eating wet seed?

[MaryOfExeter]

Charis and Treesa,
With all these storms, I wouldn't be surprised if they did accidentally eat wet seed. I do my best to keep everything clean and sanitized all the time, but with messy eaters and sudden floods, it can be hard to get down there and clean it up before someone gets a hold of wet seed. Of course I wouldn't let them eat it on purpose. If I see wet or contaminated food, I get rid of it immediately. I do have at least one antibiotic all the time, along with fish zole, wormer, and I just ran out of my cocci medicine. Also got some garlic capsules and eye cold drops in my medicine shelf in the fridge. There is a guy we know that sells pigeon supplies like this, but he's a bit too far to drive all the time. We get what we need when we visit (which we're actually going again this saturday, so I'll be sure to pick up medicine) and otherwise try to find things more locally. I think after this is over, if I have any birds from that cage left, we'll probably just tear it down and build a few more individual cages for the pairs. I just don't like that aviary one bit now, and I never really have.

[Charis]

Becky,
It's really hard to treat when you don't know for sure what to treat for but if I had the medicines you have, I would treat individually with Fishzole [Metronidazole].

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/dr...oti-15947.html

[pdpbison]

Hi MaryOfExeter,





From your descriptions, this would have the attributes of Candida or Yeast or Mildew infections in their Crops...possibly with Canker attending in some of them.


"Crop Stasis" at any rate, with Foods and Liquids not passing...and, 'gushing' when stressed or excited.


This can of course kill them.



Whether or not this began as a Viral infection, or not, and of course it does not need to have, the regimen for this, to my understanding, would be to use 'Medistatin' or 'Nystatin' and to insist everyone fast for a couple days.


I would with-hold Water also, for at least a day...or at leastfrom any whose Crops are not 'passing' well...and, if possible, give everyone 'Metronidaole' and also tube 'in' some ACV or ACV-Water, into those Crops which have room for it...


You do not want them to have Crops full of non-passing foods and liquids...so, only add ACV-Water into their Crops, according to how much room is in there, and, according to how the liquids in there will dilute the proportion you are adding...where, one can tube in a little 'straight' ACV into a Static Crop which is say, half full of Liquids...only a couple 'drops' worth though, if for that situation.


This, along with the Medistatin or Nystatin...along with the Metronidaole, will kill off the offending Molds or Yeats and so on, in their Crops and digestive system.




'Gushing' is extremely dangerous, and can occasion aspiration of contaminated liquids, giving them however many different kinds of pneumonia, and killing them then in a day or less, sometimes much less.


If you can get one to a Vet, and explain how many others are in the same boat, iofthe Vet even knows enoughto diagnose this, or to affirm the probable diagnosis this seems to represent, then, the Vet might be able to set you up with enough Medistatin or Nystatin to have everyone on a regimen for three or four days...


You need to 'tube' it in...

Do you know how?





Phil
l v

[Pidgey]

Trichomoniasis doesn't kill like this--it'd be far more helter-skelter on the older birds. A really nasty Paratyphoid would be more likely if it's not viral. Some of those can present with an elevated respiration rate because the RBC (Red Blood Cell) count is going down quickly (acute anemia). As such, they have an increasingly difficult time getting enough oxygen. When that happens, your best bet is to get them on a double dose of Enrofloxacin (Baytril) ASAP. Salmonellosis isn't the only thing to do that, though, so it is a bit of a shot in the dark.

Start counting the respiration rates--healthy individuals should have a rate down there in the low 30s as long as they're not exercising.

Pidgey