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TAWhatley TAWhatley is offline
Posted 22nd July 2011, 06:55 PM
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Location: Lake Forest, CA, USA
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Impacted/Sour Crop


I found Pantera just a bit ago sitting on his water bowl with his head hanging down. Obviously something was seriously wrong. I picked him up and found that his crop was totally impacted with peanuts. A couple of days ago I had mixed some seed that contained a lot of safflower, sunflower, and small raw peanuts in with the regular seed mix for all the birds as a treat. Apparently Pantera gorged on the peanuts.

I've "milked" his crop and gotten all the smelly, slimy undigested peanuts out and given him 10 cc of baking soda water to try and get the crop going in the right direction again. Any other suggestions as to treatment?

I'm very concerned for him and not at all sure that he is going to make it at this point. I've had him for more than 5 years, and he was an adult when I got him, and I don't know how old he may actually be.

Pantera's story may be found here for any that are interested.

Terry


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pdpbison pdpbison is offline
Posted 22nd July 2011, 07:16 PM
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Hi Terry,


What I usually do in similar instances ( once having Milked out any whole Seeds ) is to flush the Crop with five or six rounds of Saline Solution, Tubing it in, Tubing it out...ACV-Water is probably just as good for this.

Then, I use 'Medistatin', and, some ACV-Water...totalling about 4 mLs or so, and, have a Clean Fresh Towel in an Observation Cage, wait and see.

Dehydration is often the critical problem at this phase, if the Crop was so stopped up with slime or mucous to let Liquids pass...so, the sluicing and suctioning out with the Saline and or ACV-Water or each in turn, aids in this aspect, to remove the slime or sludge or mucous.

Of course, Canker, Worms, Virus, ingestion of a foreign Object, and some sorts of Bacterial issues can underlie a static Crop, as can contusion from flying mis-hap.

Are there any poops or urates presently being made?

And, if there have been, can you post an image?



Phil
Las Vegas

Last edited by pdpbison; 22nd July 2011 at 07:21 PM.
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Dobato Dobato is offline
Posted 22nd July 2011, 09:00 PM
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Terry, if you can manage, I would also give him 10cc of LRS, SC, q12h for the next few days, outside of what you have done, and Phil suggestions, and starting the Nystatin (watch the ACV too soon after the baking soda). I would also probably start a 5-7 day course of Baytril as well.

Good luck,

Karyn

Last edited by Dobato; 22nd July 2011 at 09:18 PM.
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pdpbison pdpbison is offline
Posted 22nd July 2011, 10:33 PM
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Hi Terry,


Seems to me...if the only real deal here with this is merely that the Pigeon ate too many Pea Nuts and over-stuffed themselves, there should not be any misery or protracted issues, especially once their Crop has veen evacuated by the 'Milking'.


Hence, I would incline toward administering the repetitions of Sluicing a half dozen times or more, with tepid Saline, and massaging the lower area of the Crop with each Sluicing, in order to remove as much possible Mucous or sludge or whatever else, using a Catheter which has holes at the end and a little ways up from the end also, so as not to have any suction lock.


With the info so far, I would be concerned there may be some prior or on-going issue which the diamater of the Pea Nuts has caused to become a deal-breaker...whether Canker, Candida, foreign Object related, or Bacterial ( or contusion from flying mis-hap ).


Waiting for those poop/urate images and report!


Love!


Phil
Lv

Last edited by pdpbison; 22nd July 2011 at 10:55 PM.
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Bella_F Bella_F is offline
Posted 22nd July 2011, 11:42 PM
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Dear Terry,
I don't have an expert opinion like Phil and Karyn, but because of my most recent rescue, a baby with canker, I've been reading up on canker today and have a lot of the info fresh in my mind. If you agree with Dr Colin walker, he says 90% of sour crop is caused by canker nodules at the base of the crop, so treat for canker immediately.

Anyway I hope it goes well. He could also be elderly, and it sounds like you've given Pantera a fantastic life he wouldn't have had without you. I hope he pulls through for you!
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John_D John_D is offline
Posted 23rd July 2011, 12:40 AM
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Metoclopramide (aka Reglan) is used to clear crop stasis, if the vet will supply it.
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pdpbison pdpbison is offline
Posted 23rd July 2011, 01:02 AM
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Hi Bella,


Good mentions...

We need more info and ideally images of recent/freshest poopss/urates and info on how those have been for the last six hours or so, on this one, in order to determine what ought to follow the initial procedures of cleaning out the Crop.

If Liquids have been passing, and are passing, and the Pigeon is not dehydrated, then indeed Medicines for suspected illness such as Canker or Antibiotics, or both, can be safely administered ( and will pass to be assimilated ).

If the Crop has not been passing Liquids, and the Pigeon is dehydrated, then, once the Crop is cleaned out well, one would best administer Medistatin or Nystatin and some ( just some ) Electrolyte Water used to mix it with, in hopes of ameliorating/lessening a Candida related obturation, so that Liquids will pass...and, then, once passing initial Liquids/Medistatin Solution, continueing to re-Hydrate the Bird for another 12 hours or more, with additional Medistatin, where, if Canker is suspected, to begin the anti-Canker Meds in say 12 or 14 gours, once one has re-hydrated them enough.


Many variations of this general syndrome...


Usually when I get these in, it is Canker and Candida both, and, often enough, virtually nothing is able to pass as-is, and the Bird is typically very dehydrated and in very bad shape...hence the sequence of procedures.


But, aside from discussing this generally...for this instance, we need more info.

Maybe the Crop is able to pass Liquids already, which would be nice, of course!


Phil
Lv
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pdpbison pdpbison is offline
Posted 23rd July 2011, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_D View Post
Metoclopramide (aka Reglan) is used to clear crop stasis, if the vet will supply it.

Indeed...good reminder John, an anti-Inflammitory is good to add if one has it...orally, or, injectible even better.


I tend to forget about that since I rarely have any on Hand...but I keep meaning to stock up.
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Dobato Dobato is offline
Posted 23rd July 2011, 07:22 AM
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Bella, I agree with Phil, good mention about the canker .

Karyn
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Bella_F Bella_F is offline
Posted 23rd July 2011, 05:22 PM
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Thanks heaps Karyn and Phil! I appreciate reading threads about crop issues, and what you guys have to say about treating it. Except, of course, it makes me sad to think of a poor little guy, like Terry's Pantera, being sick with crop stasis

John D, thanks for mentioning metoclopramide...I just wiki'd it and it seems to be an anti-nausea drug and dopamine inhibitor. How interesting thats it good for crop stasis too.
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Charis Charis is offline
Posted 23rd July 2011, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bella_F View Post
Dear Terry,
I don't have an expert opinion like Phil and Karyn, but because of my most recent rescue, a baby with canker, I've been reading up on canker today and have a lot of the info fresh in my mind. If you agree with Dr Colin walker, he says 90% of sour crop is caused by canker nodules at the base of the crop, so treat for canker immediately.

Anyway I hope it goes well. He could also be elderly, and it sounds like you've given Pantera a fantastic life he wouldn't have had without you. I hope he pulls through for you!

He ate too many peanuts, impacting his crop.
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pdpbison pdpbison is offline
Posted 23rd July 2011, 06:21 PM
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Any of various Antit-Inflammitories can be helpful in Crop Stasis, but would not be necessarily the only Medicine to use of course.

Injectible Anti-Inflammitories would be the most useful of all, since a Static Crop being initially deal with, if unable to pass Liquids, will of course have no way to benifit from an Oral administration of an anti-Inflammitory.
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Posted 23rd July 2011, 08:03 PM
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one method we use to fix a crop bound pigeon is we stuck our male pmeraninan pouter in an oatmeal can so he was upright so the food would go down. This method did take a few days but did work.If your pigeon does pull through give him small quantities of food and water so he doesn't relspe
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pdpbison pdpbison is offline
Posted 23rd July 2011, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charis View Post
He ate too many peanuts, impacting his crop.


It could indeed be that simple!


None the less, the occasion invites discussion respecting various causes, and, how those causes may be addresed.

Should we insist not to discuss these things Charis, since you already know the entire answer here for this? And so adroitly provide it? Case Closed?


I personally never include Peanuts in any of the Pigeon's foods/feeds here, and I never will.


The ones I get in who have static Crops, usualy it is contusion from flight mis-haps, or, inflammitory process from Candida or Bacterial or Canker infection, or ingestion of foreign object which is lodged in the Crop having led to one or more of the preceding...or Pellet Gun perforation of the Crop, ditto.


Since we have heard nothing more from Terry, we have nothing more to go on than the original Post.


Looking forward to hearing more from Terry...

Last edited by pdpbison; 23rd July 2011 at 08:21 PM.
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TAWhatley TAWhatley is offline
Posted 23rd July 2011, 08:48 PM
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I am very sorry to report that Pantera died during the night last night. I did kinda know that this was going to happen but was hoping for a better outcome.

For all of us who do this rescue/rehab stuff, you do know what the likely outcome will be once you either receive the bird and figure out what's going on or if it's one of yours and realize you've got a serious problem .. we all pretty much know based on the condition of the bird what is likely to happen.

I knew that Pantera was weak but also knew that I had to clear the crop .. I did .. gave the baking soda water .. sat with Pantera for two hours and knew that he was not going to make the night and he didn't.

Thank you all for helping here in this thread. I am so very sorry to have lost Pantera, but I did.

Terry
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