Injured feral- full crop and green droppings

[fliptruck]

Hi, can anyone give advice?

5 days ago I picked up an injured pigeon - hit by a car. He had wing feathers bent and twisted, scraped and very bruised legs, bleeding from the nostrils and a large chunk of bleeding flesh etc visible around his tail. I have washed his open wounds with saline every day, kept him in a warm dark box out of the way near a windoe to lowerr his stress levels. He was doing fine, BUT....

I also gave him water and put some soft pellet seed-eater bird food in for him (often used for parrots etc). His crop is now hugely distended and slightly bruised looking (dark purplish tinge to the pink), and is pooing emerald green, although it is consistant texture. I put him on only water with a dash of apple cider vinegar to see if this would clear his crop, in case I just fed hime too much too quickly, but it has not worked. Hes had the crop and poo problems for 2 days, and been on water for one. Is this likely to be jst overfeeding (he had free range of the food), or should I get him to the vet urgently?

[Trees Gray]

Hello and Welcome to pigeon Talk

Thank you for rescuing this very needy bird.

You should try a drop of olive oil or two, it will help get the food moving thru the crop. Just syringe it down with a tiny bit if water.

Here is our link for first steps to take for stabilizing an injured/sick bird:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8822


Here are some resources for getting help:

http://www.pigeon-life.net/prd.htm

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~devo0028/contactA.htm

http://aav.org/vet-lookup/

[Pidgey]

Maybe the swelling with the purplish color is a hematoma (leak that creates a reservoir of blood mixed with other liquid components), which would be pretty natural in a case like this. Measure it. Can you post a picture?

Pidgey

[feralpigeon]

Originally Posted by fliptruck

Hi, can anyone give advice?

5 days ago I picked up an injured pigeon - hit by a car. He had wing feathers bent and twisted, scraped and very bruised legs, bleeding from the nostrils and a large chunk of bleeding flesh etc visible around his tail. I have washed his open wounds with saline every day, kept him in a warm dark box out of the way near a windoe to lowerr his stress levels. He was doing fine, BUT....

I also gave him water and put some soft pellet seed-eater bird food in for him (often used for parrots etc). His crop is now hugely distended and slightly bruised looking (dark purplish tinge to the pink), and is pooing emerald green, although it is consistant texture. I put him on only water with a dash of apple cider vinegar to see if this would clear his crop, in case I just fed hime too much too quickly, but it has not worked. Hes had the crop and poo problems for 2 days, and been on water for one. Is this likely to be jst overfeeding (he had free range of the food), or should I get him to the vet urgently?

Hi Fliptruck,

Welcome to PT and thanks for taking this pigeon in. You might try the ratio
of 2 TBLS of Raw Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) to a gallon of water in addition
to the olive oil that Treesa suggested. Set this out in a deep non-tippable bowl as the only source of drinking water. You might want to see about getting a mix of wild bird seed that has Doves listed on the side of the bag and use this instead of the pellet once the distention has resolved. Also, if you could tell us your general whereabouts this could prove helpful if we have a member in your area.

In the meantime, here's a link to Crop Medicating for you to look at to help
with giving the bird Olive Oil:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=15696

fp

[pdpbison]

Originally Posted by fliptruck

Hi, can anyone give advice?

5 days ago I picked up an injured pigeon - hit by a car. He had wing feathers bent and twisted, scraped and very bruised legs, bleeding from the nostrils and a large chunk of bleeding flesh etc visible around his tail. I have washed his open wounds with saline every day, kept him in a warm dark box out of the way near a windoe to lowerr his stress levels. He was doing fine, BUT....

I also gave him water and put some soft pellet seed-eater bird food in for him (often used for parrots etc). His crop is now hugely distended and slightly bruised looking (dark purplish tinge to the pink), and is pooing emerald green, although it is consistant texture. I put him on only water with a dash of apple cider vinegar to see if this would clear his crop, in case I just fed hime too much too quickly, but it has not worked. Hes had the crop and poo problems for 2 days, and been on water for one. Is this likely to be jst overfeeding (he had free range of the food), or should I get him to the vet urgently?

Hi fliptruck...



Wow...


If it was me, I would withhold food for the next four days or so...and wait till his Crop has emptied before considering to offer food again...

And, when it seems alright to offer food again, I would offer Seeds...and likely small whole nice ones like say a Parakeet or Finch or Canary mix...

This way, his by-then just BARELY functioning digestive system, will not have to dealing with large diameter Seeds...but can likely deal with small diameter ones...


I'd have him on the ACV-Water right now, to the tune of three Tablespoons to the Gallon...and keep him on it for another eight or ten days.

I'd keep him warm, and have soft rolled or folded cloths on his cage for him to lean on if he wanted or to ake him as comfortable as possible anyway so he stays upright and as best he can...maybe drape the cage on three sides even, and a white towell on the bottom to better see the poops...


When they get whacked like that, sometimes their whole digestive system shuts down, and whatever food was in their Crop, spoils there and starts fermenting...so, the ACV-Water will help a great deal with that, and with eliminating yeasts...

And, as fp mentions, a little pure, new Bottle only, never from an 'old' bottle one has on the shelf...a little Olive Oil down his gullet, would be fine, if you are sure on how to do it and not get any in his windpipe...

The emerald Green is almost certainly bile comeing through, and meanwhile the Crop and digestive processes are shut down, maybe injured/bruised as well, maybe swollen in some areas, or constricted for now with blood even...and will take a few days or more to start slowly, tentatively moving again...

This is pretty usual for them when whacked hard like that...


If he is torn there near his Tail, maybe see about getting him sutured up...


I usually use 'Neosporin' for keeping injured areas moist and safe from germs...


Figure a few months of convelesence is most likely for this fellow...and for now, the next week or so of course is especially crucial for him...so...


A few days of fasting, ACV-Water, warmth, soft things to lean on, and see how that Crop emptys...and if all goes well, you should start seeing poops fairly soon, tomorrow or the next day, maybe you will get four or five small grey or ughy tan ones...and they will not look normal till he is done with these delays of digestion...


Good for you to be looking after him...!


Good luck...!


Phil
Las Vegas

[Reti]

Tuesday night a friend calls me, she has a sick bird, if I could bird-sit for a few days cause she had to leave the next day. The bird had a full crop for a day already and only some tiny and green with yellow droppings. I gave the ACV and oil and water, nothing happened, the crop seemed to become puffier. I forgot to mention that the bird was already on Flagyl, Baytril and I added Nystatin. That was not a good idea cause the meds won't get absorbed when the crop isn't functioning.
The bird being emaciated needed to eat and I couldn't keep it starved much longer.
By Wednesday afternoon I took her to the vet, she looked pretty bad by then already.
He did three crop washes and got all the gunk out, that stuff was days old and smelled like it.
He ran a fecal, liver, kidney function and a blood test. All came back normal except the white blood cells, which were way up high (51.000).
He gave me injectable antibiotics and Reglan and Emeraid, a critical care formula of which you give only a few cc's (for this bird 7cc's) three times a day, enough to just keep her alive.
Before leaving the clinic he gave her subcutaneous 12cc's of fluid.
The crop is doing somewhat better, but is still slow to empty, but overall she is somewhat better.
Well, today she started showing some vague symptoms of PMV. She is walking backwards and stretches her neck backwards when stressed, plus she is trembling.
Crop stasis can be a symprom of PMV and sometimes can be the only symptom, then nothing will help other than supportive care.
Also the crop needs to empty eventually, one way or the other. After a couple of days, the stagnant food can become toxic and that is lethal to the bird. Not to mention that she will starve and become dehydrated.

Reti

[pdpbison]

Hi Reti,



Yea...

By-products of fermenting Crop contents can make Acetones, Wood-Alcohols and other toxic and intoxicating chemicals, and these can make them rather 'drunk' and neuologically impaired pro-tem...


Poor things...


Getting whacked by a Car, of course can bruise the Crop and everything else too, which can cause a stasis of the whole digestive system stem to stern, or at least in the forst half or two-thirds, and then the fermentaion and spoilage starts in, along with Candida sometimes, fermenting gas, and defacto 'starvation' of sorts anyway, for want of anything getting through...


We have to play it by ear of course...

Trying to decide or deduce what is up.


If a robust Bird recently innured in blunt trauma, or from other matters effecting the Crop, or having Crop stasis, they can coast just fine a few days on no 'new' food...so long as we make sure they are hydrated decently.

A 'thin' Bird, however, I would tend to give them thin nutrituous 'soups' via the Lavage or Catheter, soon as I dare to...mostly hi-nutrient Fruit ( Black Cherry, Goji Berry, Elderberry ) concentrates or home made 'purrees' and 'Nutrical' and some KT blended together with the ACV-Water, and this can be very good then as it can rather wind it's liquidy way on through...so long as their condition and Crop otherwise seems able to handle it.

Too, a lot depends on if they are interested to eat, once we decide to let them...and the Car wacked sometimes are, sometimes are not.

I have seen badly Car wacked ones happy to eat, and if their Crop and poops are alright I let them...and some of these are in truely bad shape all tolled, broken Wings, Legs, ribs most likely too, really whalloped...yet, a few hours later, half-a-day later, a day later, happy to peck their Seeds and so on, propped up in cloths or in slings and so on to half way stand...so, every one is different...


Canker can clog or inflame and constrict the lower Crop passage to their Stomach...to where there is a Crop and digestive stasis.

That is what I think is going on with my new one here...and it can also involve Candida or Yeasts and fermenting or at least nasty spoiled food in their Crop.

I myself have no way to get this sort of stuff out of there, so I let it pass...and the ACV-Water ( along with a Canker regimen ) along with a few days of fasting till the Crop does clear, has shown itself to work well.


Car wacked Birds of course can have internal bleeding, serious internal injury and contusion, and all the swellings or stasis and so on these can involve.

If they had a full or semi full Crop when wacked, this adds to the complications then, since one dare not feed a Static Crop Pigeon, and even thin Lavaged 'Soups' are risky till one waits a while...

And sometimes this is the regimen then, even after the Crop clears, if they do not wish to eat, and one knows by then they need nourishment...

So, I usually let them have small Seeds like a Canary or Finch mix, if they are interested, once ready...and if they are not interested, then..."The Tube" comes to visit...


Golly...it is truely amazing they survive initially from some of these traumas, for us to even get them at all, to ponder and impliment their care and convelesence...


Phil
Las Vegas

[TAWhatley]

Phil,

I think four days is way tooooo long .. that's time enough for a bird to starve. I do understand the rationale, but I do think that's way too long of a time.

Terry

[TAWhatley]

I'm so sorry this one is in such bad shape, Reti. Best of luck with it .. you already have all the pertinent info from the vet.

Terry

[pdpbison]

Originally Posted by TAWhatley

Phil,

I think four days is way tooooo long .. that's time enough for a bird to starve. I do understand the rationale, but I do think that's way too long of a time.

Terry

Hi Terry,


Well, what I mean is, whatever time their system needs to clear and to start working again...otherwise, anything one puts 'in' is not going to go anywhere anyway.

As things start to move through again, maybe on day two...it can be a couple more days before what had been in their Crop, gets through to being pooped out. And then one can figure they can handle eating again, and small Seeds might be easiest for still somewhat constricted passages...

I do not mean to 'starve' them..!

But to let things clear out, and not to feed untill we know that things are moving again...moveing through.

Three days is probably more like it...and or it all depends...

Three days is no problem for an otherwise decent weight Pigeon...especially if they had a fairly full static Crop to start with...it can take that long for the Candida or other secondary problems to clear up enough ( with treatment, ) for their Crop to be emptying at all anyway...and it would be no good to be adding food on top of it when it is not emptying...so, at least that way, whatever was in their static Crop to start with, they are processing 'that' ( with the ACV-Water to ammend, ) as one otherwise lets them fast.



And, it all depends...

Whatever the Crop and poops 'say' is what I go by on these things...but after three or by four days, I will tube feed 'thin' nutritious 'soups' figuring these will find their way through and digest and so on, even if the Crop is still not empty of it's 'original' static contents...

So, I do not let them 'starve'...!

And if thin to begin with I vex and start 'soups' sooner...


Sorry it was not more clear there...


Love!



Best wishes...

Phil
Las Vegas

[fliptruck]

Okay, pidgeon is still ok, here's an update:

I came up with a theory based on the fact he was still quite active etc, and plenty of fluids were going through his system. While I initially thought it was a crop problem, the i7ncrease rather than decrease of swell after 36 hours on water suggested something else was happenning. I did another inspection of the 'purpling' of his neck, and decided that the purpling was infact owing to a large dark empty space rather than bruising etc. I did some reading and theorised he may have ruptured his air sack during the crash. Cause I could see more harm and letting him swell than in attempting to deflate him, I sterilised his neck and put a slight cut in a pinch of skin. This worked a treat - yes, he was full of air just under his skin. He looked much, much more comfortable after this, and could move his head normally etc.

Here's the problem - 12 hours later he is swelling up again. I am thinking maybe his rupture hasn't healed yet, and he could just keep reinflating until it heals. Maybe I should gently wrap his neck to stop it puffing up again?

Any ideas? Thanks for all the advice, by the way.

[surya-s]

Originally Posted by fliptruck

Hi, can anyone give advice?

5 days ago I picked up an injured pigeon - hit by a car. He had wing feathers bent and twisted, scraped and very bruised legs, bleeding from the nostrils and a large chunk of bleeding flesh etc visible around his tail. I have washed his open wounds with saline every day, kept him in a warm dark box out of the way near a windoe to lowerr his stress levels. He was doing fine, BUT....

I also gave him water and put some soft pellet seed-eater bird food in for him (often used for parrots etc). His crop is now hugely distended and slightly bruised looking (dark purplish tinge to the pink), and is pooing emerald green, although it is consistant texture. I put him on only water with a dash of apple cider vinegar to see if this would clear his crop, in case I just fed hime too much too quickly, but it has not worked. Hes had the crop and poo problems for 2 days, and been on water for one. Is this likely to be jst overfeeding (he had free range of the food), or should I get him to the vet urgently?

Hello Fliptruck,
Well, I am rather inexperienced and not of much help, but I think you are doing a wonderful deed by saving the poor pigeon. You'll get a lot of help in this forum. Please do keep us updated on the progress.
Best of luck for all your efforts to save the pigeon.
Thanks,
Surya

[Pidgey]

Yeah, that happens occasionally. It seems to happen rarely enough around here (the forum) that it's sometimes forgotten by the time another one comes up. Anyhow, some folks let the air out by way of a hypodermic needle--just sterilize it before you stick it in. I'm not sure that a wrap around the neck is a good idea. These things do usually heal in time.

Pidgey

[feralpigeon]

Fliptruck, could you please let us know your general whereabouts? There may
be professional medical help that is available in your area at no cost to you and
there's no harm in having a look at that possibility. It might work better than
you doing the procedures yourself if someone trained is available locally. Thanks.

fp

[Maggie-NC]

Fliptruck, thank you so much for taking this pigeon in and caring for it.

We don't usually see air sac problems like you describe in pigeons. Our experience has been mostly with song birds, usually babies or fledglings, with an inflated air sac. The "air bubbles" can be small or large and we usually don't try to deflate the smaller ones since they usually go away on their own. However, for the larger bubbles, we do as Pidgey described and use a sterilized needle to slightly prick the bubble and let the air come out. We have often had to repeat this 2 - 3 times until the sac heals.

You need to be in a very good light when pricking the bubble. That way, you will be able to insert the needle in an area AWAY from blood vessels.

Best of luck with this little one.