Injured Feral. Wounds Under Wing

[cyro51]

Hi Janet,

If you go to the vet can you ask them to sell you a small bottle of Metacam? It is always such a comfort to have a painkiller for pigeons when needed.

Cynthia

[Pidgey]

If you've got any antibiotic ointment, you could pack some in there. I hate for them to have any kind of an odor emanating from such a hole although he might have it in the feathers around the wound from before.

Incidentally, I took my Pierpont in for the vet to do the same thing and discovered that my vet was far more heavy-handed cleaning those types of wounds out than I was, and no local anaesthetic, either. That's one of those deals where one vet's going to better and another's likely to be worse. Anymore, I do it myself if I think it's straightforward because I'm a helluva' lot kinder to the bird because I'm not constrained by "time-is-money".

I will say, though, that such a deep wound on this guy is in a very odd place. Do you have a sense of whether the hole goes straight in or does it track to the left/right? The corresponding hole on the web of flesh between the true wrist and the shoulder looks like it was in the way when whatever made the pierce was thrust in. In the top picture where you're holding the wing up, the tip of your middle finger is just about on the shoulder with the actual wound slightly below and behind. Now, the rib cage is under there somewhere and so are the muscles and tendons that pull the wing down in the power stroke.

The picture just under that one is basically a close up that's rotated ~90 degrees counterclockwise. You can see the feather shafts that were to the left of the wound in the top picture. When you were pulling the thing out, did you manage to get a sense of which direction it pulled out from? Can you describe it with reference to the top picture?

Pidgey

[amyable]

I did spray some Coloidal silver into the hole. I've just been looking for what I might have. I do have some 30% and 40% volume peroxide that I have from hairdressing days which I could dilute, isn't that good for cleansing?
Or antiseptic wound spray, or Savlon cream.

[Pidgey]

I'd probably go with the silver, actually.

Pidgey

[amyable]

Pidgey, the wound goes narrower and tapers toward my thumb in the first picture.

[Pidgey]

It'd be better than going straight in through the rib cage.

Pidgey

[amyable]

I managed to get an actual appointment this time with a vet so was able to go in and see him with the bird which was great.
I showed him the pictures and also took what came out of the wound for him to see.
He said it was necrotic debris and took a good look into the wound with a light and magnifier so could see much better that I ever could.
He reckoned it didn't look infected any more and the remaining necrotic stuff would gradually come away with flushing. He said it was the right thing to have taken it out which was good.
I asked about the possibility of a tracking abcess and he couldn't see any evidence of one, which was a relief.
So he said to continue with the flushing and expect to see some more stuff come away and could use the Intracite gel to help with the debridement just for a short while. If I see anything else that makes me think there is an infection starting up then to go back in and he will give me antibiotics. He said it might be better not to give him any at the moment as that in itself might set up a different problem if he becomes immune to them. ( I didn't tell him he was on Synulox).
The wound might have entered the muscle slightly due to the direction of the
entry which unfortunately might affect his flying slightly with that one wing.
He does flutter and can get up high in short bursts and uses his wing but I was surprised the other day as he escaped from the aviary briefly, and even when I was chasing him, he didn't attempt to fly at all. I'll have to take him back to the 'sanctuary' when he's better as much as I hate the thought so I can see if he does manage to fly once this is healed before thinking about whether he can be realeased.

By the way the vet seemed to think it was originally a bite wound but the hole had got so much bigger due to the initial infection and the amount of necrotic tissue building up in it.

So for now I'll carry on with the treatment and see how it heals.
Any thoughts as to whether to carry on with the antibiotics though?

Janet

[Pidgey]

I sorta' doubt that you need to continue with antibiotics. When they get to the point you're describing, simple debriding and saline flushes are pretty good. My vet originally told me that you don't have to worry very much with birds getting skin infections. We worry more about systemic infections in them like the Pasteurella but that worry's long over with this guy.

Pidgey

[cyro51]

Hi Janet,

Thanks for the update, you have produced some really interesting information and photographs which will be useful references in the future.

I believe in finishing an antibiotic course once it is started, to avoid the risk of helping create resistant bacteria. I think that the shortest course for Synulox is 5 days.

Cynthia

[amyable]

Hi Cynthia, Thanks for the meds, they arrived safely. Will carry on for another three days to make sure then.
The wound had closed up quite a bit this morning, but not inside so have done a flush and I think it looks ok.
Poor sole is quite wary of me at the moment so I've put him in a large cage on the other side of the potting shed to Danni so he can see him but not touch. I hope this is ok.
He's eating and pooping ok so I feel much more settled about him now.

Thanks so for much for all the help, and to Pidgey. will keep you posted on his/her progress. Don't know why I call it him, I have no idea really what it is so haven't come up with a name yet, apart from sweetheart, which they all are.

Janet

[chriss80]

All the best wishes for this pigeon, if in need of baytril I have a small bit left that I can send.

[philodice]

This is one of the harder threads to read and look at on this forum. Sometimes the hardest ones to not pull away from (yuck) are the most educational. I wonder if there is a BB somewhere inside this poor bird, even though there can't be that is what it looks like for all the world.

I wouldn't go with peroxide on a wound that is more than superficial. Peroxide can actually damage healthy, newly growing and healing cells internally. (Medical Journal, 1995) During surgeries they wash with saline solution. I would continue to wash with silver, no creams or stuff. Those first aid items aren't meant for intrusive body cavity application. Some advanced hospitals will use natural honey instead, even on deep infected wounds, or abscesses caused by staph.
Put silver in the drinking water. You might put a drop of Neem oil in the washing water and in the drinking water. Neem actually reduces swelling and dissolves puss, kills infections, worms, gently. Birds can't deal with swelling and infection the same way we can. They can hold up so well, bounce back from almost anything, but when swelling starts due to bacterial or protozoan colonization it seems that is what really gets them. (canker, bumblefoot)

[amyable]

That's really interesting info, thanks Philodice. I've learned a lot from dealing with this injury so far, and knowing what to use in what situation is good. Helps to give you the confidence to try to help.
The Neem sounds incredibly useful, I have got some Manuka Honey which Cynthia mentioned was worth having in. I did wonder about using that. I haven't had anything I needed it for since I bought it and I'm afraid I've got to liking it on toast, an expensive luxury!!
I sprayed the wound with Silver again tonight and packed it with the Intracite Gel which the vet said was good for debriding. Canary Jayne first told me about Intracite a while ago, something else I hadn't heard of before. Having these items on hand means at least you have a fair chance of being able to deal with something quickly that comes your way.

I really hope there isn't anything inside him, I just think that although the vet said it looked like an enlarged cat bite, I would have thought a bite would have gone in at a slightly straighter angle as opposed to a forward direction, as this wound goes.

Thanks for the input.

Janet

[cyro51]

I'm afraid I've got to liking it on toast, an expensive luxury!!

LOL, Janet!!!! But even so, it would be more than a luxury as I think it is good for you.

Les (A Wing and a Prayer) swears by Mauka Honey for healing wounds.

I don't think it would be a BB gun because of there being two wounds so close together, and one shallower than the other. But if it was, then unless it was lodged somewhere in the digestive tract, it would be left inside.

Cynthia

[philodice]

I just read in another thread about diluting the peroxide to a 1/10 solution (90% water purified) and totally slapped my forehead. duh, of course you can diluted it instead!
And why didn't I also think of Stevia extract, just the best dressing for deep wounds that I can think of beside Neem or that honey. And how will you keep the bird from tasting himself with all that on him?
You follow too much of my advice he'll start smelling like Dim Sum.