Is This Paratyphoid ??

[jbangelfish]

I don't know why, perhaps because of lingering problems afterward, such as infertility.

Most of the drugs for treating Paratyphoid are sulpha drugs such as Sulmet or Albon, which is probably the same thing.
This medication will treat Paratyphoid, Coccidiosis, Fowl Cholera and another disease that I can't remember.

The treatment for Paratyphoid involves treating the water for a two week period and you would want to treat the entire flock. I would do the two week treatment as a prevention and possible cure of any Paratyphoid in the flock. I do this myself, every spring.

Swollen wing joints or leg joints are the classic sign of advanced Paratyphoid. The early sign is green droppings.

If you keep your coop clean and dry and treat the entire flock once a year, you should never have to worry about this disease, or just about any other for that matter.

Bill

[Charis]

Foys doesn't have baytril because too many slaughtered chickens were found to have baytril in their systems. The worry is over use by the public so pigeon supply will no longer be able to get it. It will only be available via a veterinarian. This information is via my veterinarian friend.

[TAWhatley]

Wow! Seeing this thread again was a blast from the past. I often think of Big Bertha and hope that she went on to lead a long and happy life after I returned her to Bart.

I would love to have a couple of Hungarian Giants at some point.

Anyway to get back on topic, some of the pigeon supply houses do have a "generic" replacement for Baytril, but it is easy enough to buy Cipro from the Mexican pharmacies.

Terry

[vouteman]

Originally Posted by TAWhatley

was asked to take a Hungarian Giant House Pigeon in for
treatment by a friend who raises them. Three of his birds are
sick with this. I think what I am seeing is paratyphoid, but would
welcome a confirmation of this and suggested treatment. The
three birds most affected have been started on Amikacin, high doses,
and the "boils" have been lanced and drained, cleaned with Betadine,
and packed with antibiotic cream, and lightly bandaged to keep
the area clean. If this is paratyhoid, then what is the "flock" treatment
for this? I can handle individual birds, but am not sure what to
recommend for the others that have been exposed.


Thank you for any advice and assistance!


http://www.rims.net/Paratyphoid

Terry (Teresa)

I would reccomend that to be sure you are treating the right disease that you send a sample of droppings to be evaluated by a labratory. Foy's pigeon supplies performs that service for about $20. All you have to do is collect about a tablespoonful of fresh poo and put it in a baggie and put a short note in there with your name and address and mail it to them. He will call you and tell you what the lab has found. He will then suggest what he uses on his birds if you ask him. That is the only way you know what you are fighting. There are only a limited number of symptoms for all the diseases that pigeons carry. I use a product called Virkon-S once a month on my birds. It has been found out in a labroatory that Virkon-S will destroy all seventeen of the diseases that pigeons have.

[vouteman]

Originally Posted by Birdmom4ever

Yes, I gave them the full run of Baytril. None of the adult pigeons were ever tested. The avian vet I was using at the time told me salmonella is hard to test for; that a bird could test negative following a course of antibiotics and yet still turn out to be a carrier.

Only one of my adult pigeons ever exhibited symptoms and that was just diarrhea. It was the chicks, which nearly all died (about 10 in all), that were affected. That's how we knew we had a problem--all our babies were dying. We did have a chick necropsied, thinking they would confirm it was salmonella. It cost $200 and all they told us was that it died from a "massive intestinal bacterial infection." They explained that to determine the exact organism that caused the infection would have cost even more. We were disappointed not to know for certain, but dropped it. But the chicks' symptoms pointed to salmonella.

We had no complications after we vaccinated following treatment with Baytril and our chicks after that point were healthy. I don't think there is any risk to a carrier by vaccinating it once it recovers, but it would be best to check with an avian vet.

If you ever decide to have a necropsy on a pigeon think about your state university. Here the University of Kentucky will do it and tell you what they found for free. You do have to take three birds for them to do a necropsy on. They will then give you a print out of what course of action that they recommend. Almost every state university will do this for free or a very small fee.

Not only does rat/mouse urine cause salmonella but roaches have been also found to cause this disease also. A mouse leaves a continuous trail of urine. They never stop urinating. It is the cause for most paratyphoid outbreaks. Usually if you have a clean loft with no vermin then you need to stop feeding the feed you are using immediately. I used to buy my feed from a local farmer. What ever the market price is every morning in the paper that is what he sells his grain for. He sold corn, Milo, wheat and barley. He will not use cats to keep the rats/mice away. He insist on using traps, bait and his dogs for eradication. The hawks even come into his barn to hunt them. If he would get a couple of cats they would keep the vermin away. A dog just brings more in. I was told that a rat could smell dog food from almost a mile away. Every time I went over there he would have a old hub cap turned over and was full of dog food. He was inviting the rats to his feed barn by leaving the dog food out all the time. I hated to have to change suppliers. His feed was really cheap. I have went back to the pre mixed bagged food that gets shipped here from Canada.

[Charis]

Originally Posted by vouteman

If you ever decide to have a necropsy on a pigeon think about your state university. Here the University of Kentucky will do it and tell you what they found for free. You do have to take three birds for them to do a necropsy on. They will then give you a print out of what course of action that they recommend. Almost every state university will do this for free or a very small fee.

Not only does rat/mouse urine cause salmonella but roaches have been also found to cause this disease also. A mouse leaves a continuous trail of urine. They never stop urinating. It is the cause for most paratyphoid outbreaks. Usually if you have a clean loft with no vermin then you need to stop feeding the feed you are using immediately. I used to buy my feed from a local farmer. What ever the market price is every morning in the paper that is what he sells his grain for. He sold corn, Milo, wheat and barley. He will not use cats to keep the rats/mice away. He insist on using traps, bait and his dogs for eradication. The hawks even come into his barn to hunt them. If he would get a couple of cats they would keep the vermin away. A dog just brings more in. I was told that a rat could smell dog food from almost a mile away. Every time I went over there he would have a old hub cap turned over and was full of dog food. He was inviting the rats to his feed barn by leaving the dog food out all the time. I hated to have to change suppliers. His feed was really cheap. I have went back to the pre mixed bagged food that gets shipped here from Canada.

You are preachin to the choir, vouteman.
Also, I'm thankful Foy's provides the service they do with fecal exams....it's not always accurate though.

[TheSnipes]

Originally Posted by Charis

You are preachin to the choir, vouteman.
Also, I'm thankful Foy's provides the service they do with fecal exams....it's not always accurate though.

and paratyphoid..isn't that an unlikely one to get a positive test for? It turns up many false negatives is what I mean.

[jbangelfish]

Baytril is very strong medicine and should only be used when you simply cannot diagnose the problem. If you suspect either Paratyphoid or Coccidiosis, Sulpha drugs such as Albon or Sulmet will treat and cure either of them and are much easier on the birds.

If birds have wing boils or swollen leg joints, these are nearly always late signs of Paratyphoid.

Baytril kills all bacteria in a pigeons body both good and bad and is very hard on the bird. It has been outlawed in the US, according to Jerry Gagne, who now owns Foys.

I have treated and cured several cases of Paratyphoid over the years and have never used Baytril for anything. I treat the whole flock every year with Albon or other Sulpha drug and never worry about harming the birds. To treat for Paratyphoid, takes 14 days of treatment and I think that is too long to be on Baytril. It is strong, it has been outlawed.

Bill

[TheSnipes]

Baytril has not been "outlawed". The reason the drug is banned from sale is not because it is a bad drug, or because it is "too strong"..it is simply because it is the same drug as CIPRO, which is a powerful drug in our own pharmaceutical weapons chest. Tests have shown that the drug is found in chicken meat after slaughter, which means it could enter via our food supply, thus giving pathogens a chance to develop immunity or resistance. Thus Baytril was removed from use in the poultry industry, and therefore is no longer available without a prescription, due to the potential threat of lessening the effectiveness of the drug CIPRO against human pathogens. That's it, and it does not imply there is anything wrong with the drug, or with using it. Unless you are eating your pigeons, of course...

Here are two links for inquiring minds, to the official FDA decision:http://www.fda.gov/oc/antimicrobial/baytril.pdf (see pg. 5, paragraph 2, for instance),
and a summary article on the decision: http://www.mindfully.org/Farm/2005/B...ned29jul05.htm

You can still obtain Baytril from a veterinarian, in pill or liquid form, or get them to write a script for Cipro if you want to use it for your birds. It still has great value to us and I have found it to be highly effective in treating sick birds when no other drug was.

[Birdmom4ever]

My lovebird is currently on a two month course of Baytril (diluted in his drinking water) for a chronic sinus infection. This is the second round in a six month time frame and it was prescribed by my avian vet. I have not observed any side effects, but Lovey's sinus infection is clearing up. Baytril is not a bad drug, but it has been overused by the poultry industry, as The Snipes said. And according to Dr. Colin Walker ("The Flying Vet") it's still the drug of choice for treating Salmonellosis/Paratyphoid. It shouldn't be used for any old thing, but it's a valuable drug.

[jbangelfish]

It has been outlawed except by prescription. This is why Foys can't sell it over the counter.Apparently the fact that it kept showing up in slaughtered chickens was the reason for it's control as has been pointed out here on at least a few occasions.

This does not change the fact that it is a strong med and maybe needs the supervision of an avian vet. Any medication that kills all bacteria in a bird's system puts a considerable stress on that bird as it needs beneficial bacteria for it's digestive system to work properly and for it to receive it's required nutrition.

The fact that Baytril is still available through a vet, is perhaps a good thing as it is now controlled and can be used in those situations where warranted.

I confess that I still don't understand why people were so quick to use Baytril and not use Sulpha drugs which are readily available, inexpensive, and able to control such things as Paratyphoid and Coccidiosis with very minimal risk to the birds.

Bill