Is This Paratyphoid ??

[TAWhatley]

was asked to take a Hungarian Giant House Pigeon in for
treatment by a friend who raises them. Three of his birds are
sick with this. I think what I am seeing is paratyphoid, but would
welcome a confirmation of this and suggested treatment. The
three birds most affected have been started on Amikacin, high doses,
and the "boils" have been lanced and drained, cleaned with Betadine,
and packed with antibiotic cream, and lightly bandaged to keep
the area clean. If this is paratyhoid, then what is the "flock" treatment
for this? I can handle individual birds, but am not sure what to
recommend for the others that have been exposed.


Thank you for any advice and assistance!


http://www.rims.net/Paratyphoid

Terry (Teresa)

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Terry,

I don't know if what you are seeing is in fact paratyphoid or not. The wing boils would seem to lead in this direction. It's best to have a culture done to be sure because there are different strains of the bacteria and you would need to get the right antibiotic. It would seem baytril or amoxicillan are still your best bets to treat individually however. Here are a few very good links regarding paratyphoid. The first one is from a renowned veterinarian in Canada, the second is just general information. The 3rd link is from Siegels describing the symptoms and then offering treatment options.

1) http://www.albertaclassic.com/chalmers1.php

2) http://www.pipa.be/artikels/pi-account/paratyphoid.htm

3) http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-paratyphoid.html

[Reti]

Hi Terry,

here is what Foy's recommends for Paratyphoid outbreaks;
--if you have an outbreak you should immediately stop breeding
--Drugs proven to work include Cipro, Baytril, Sulpha-trimethoprim, Albon, Sulmet and Aureomycin.

--Another prevention is to acidify the litter. A combination of Sodium Acid Sulfate and Sulfur applied to the floor will work well.

--A tablespoon of vinegar per gallon of drinking water will help control Salmonella from being spread in the water.

--And of course vaccinating HEALTHY birds will prevent any further outbreaks.

Reti

[re lee]

It could be related to. But most often swollen joints weight loss and death happen. I was wondering is it possible parisites .But I was at a racers home about 2 weeks back. His flying team seemed to have cocsd, or parat. And a few birds did have boils on the wings. the birds was off weight also. I gave him sulmet for flock treatment. He did have a mice problem That he need to get under control. I let him know mice can cause alot of health issues. I still wonder on parisites also. I will be checking back with him soon to see if the birds are getting better. Its just his flying team of old birds seperate loft. About 60 birds are down on weight . other lofts are ok.

[Birdmom4ever]

Hi Terry,

You've already gotten good info. I just wanted to add that from what I've read (including a book written by a pigeon vet who also raises homers) Baytril is the drug of choice for treating Paratyphoid. If possible, as Brad said, running some tests to see what strain of bacteria you're dealing with would be good. But even if you can't, Baytril is a good broad-spectrum antibiotic.

Of course, once the pigeons recover they should be vaccinated with Sal-Bac, which involves an initial vaccination and a booster 3 to 4 weeks later.

We had an outbreak a couple years ago. Didn't see swollen joints, but some diarrhea and we lost a lot of babies in the nest. I treated the whole flock with Baytril and then vaccinated them. So far, we haven't had a problem with it again. I've heard that some pigeons that recover can remain carriers, but that doesn't seem to be the case with our flock. I vaccinate all youngsters and new birds and give yearly boosters. The packaging says every six months, but I can't seem to get around to it more than once a year (we have a lot of birds to vaccinate!). My vet told me these vaccines actually give immunity longer than the packaging says.

Anyway, best of luck treating your friend's Giant House pigeons.

[TAWhatley]

Thank you everyone for your responses about this. My apologies for being MIA all day .. just too many rescues to arrange, coordinate, and take in the sick and wounded. I have been reading posts and am up on that count but haven't been able to respond until now and am still waiting for two more incoming this evening.

Anyway, the big beauty is some better today, so I will continue treatment .. have restocked Baytril today and given the first dose of that .. a double dose actually.

Will keep you posted, and thank you all again!

Terry

[feralpigeon]

In my internet surfing, I found the following article on Paratyphoid/Salmonella
that was pulled directly from the insert enclosed w/the Sal Bac vaccine. It is an excellent description of the disease and thought it best to tag it on to this existing information on the disease.

From this site:

http://www.kjsgroup.com/rprs/aspx/do...Salmonella.asp

Salmonella

A Disease Description

Editors note: I noticed the following when vaccinating my young birds. It is a short and accurate description of the disease and wanted to include it on this site so that it would be readily available for those using the search feature on this site.

Paratyphoid (Salmonellosis) in pigeons is an acute or chronic bacterial disease caused by Salmonella. The most common species identified in cases of paratyphiod in pigeons is Salmonella typhimurium. ( Murium is Latin for mouse)

The primary means of infection is through fecal contamination of feed, water or the environment( by rodents). The devastating nature of this disease is impacted by the occurrence of asymptomatic carrier birds which show no signs of illness and spread the disease to other birds. The organism may localize in the gallbladder or intestine and may then intermittently be shed through the feces.

Clinical manifestation of paratyphiod is broad in its range of symptoms. Of the several forms of expression, the disease in squabs (nestling pigeons) causes high mortality. Symptoms are usually evident soon after hatching and appear as retarded growth, diarrhea and death. Necropsy often reveals an unabsorbed yolk sac in addition to typical intestinal lesions. The squabs which survive the initial infection may develop swollen wing joints which prevent them from flying.

Adult birds may only show a mild infection or be completely without symptoms. Hens often develop infected ovaries and reproductive tracts leading to transovarion transmission of the Salmonella to the developing embryo and newly hatched chicks.

An articular form of the disease usually develops through a chronic course and involves the joints of the wings and legs. Dropped wings or leg lameness are clinically visible in this form. Another characteristic sign is apparent as joint swellings or "wing boils". The swelling is due to a collection of gelatinous exudate in the joint capsule. The Salmonella organism can readily be cultured from this exudate.

A septicemic form may be acute or chronic in course and clinically appears as depression, poor performance, weakness and watery, muciod diarrhea which leads to dehydration. Any stressful conditions exacerbate these symptoms. Other symptoms may be evident in the form of respiratory distress, anemia, or torticollis, a neuromotor defect due to encephalitis or inner ear infection causing the head and neck to be twisted to the side or extended over the back. Septicemia often causes an acute, severe enteritis with diarrhea and emaciation. Peracute deaths may occur as well.

The above is reprinted from the Sal Bac (vaccine for Salmonella typhimurium) insert. This vaccine is produced by the Biomune Co., Lenexa, Kansas, USA.


Hope this is helpful for members.

fp

[feralpigeon]

Originally Posted by TAWhatley

was asked to take a Hungarian Giant House Pigeon in for
treatment by a friend who raises them. Three of his birds are
sick with this. I think what I am seeing is paratyphoid, but would
welcome a confirmation of this and suggested treatment. The
three birds most affected have been started on Amikacin, high doses,
and the "boils" have been lanced and drained, cleaned with Betadine,
and packed with antibiotic cream, and lightly bandaged to keep
the area clean. If this is paratyhoid, then what is the "flock" treatment
for this? I can handle individual birds, but am not sure what to
recommend for the others that have been exposed.


Thank you for any advice and assistance!


http://www.rims.net/Paratyphoid

Terry (Teresa)

Hi Terry,

I looked in all the supply houses that I know of and using search engine, I typed in Amikacin and got no listing for it. Is this the correct spelling, and
could this product be listed under something else?? Just curious especially
after your recent success with this under the thread:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9883

Thanks,

fp

[TAWhatley]

FP .. Amikacin is a broad spectrum antibiotic. The paratyphoid birds were started on it because that is all I had that I thought would be potent enough on the first day. The birds were switched to Baytril which is really the drug of choice for paratyphoid.

One of the local avian certified vets in my area uses Amikacin for many, many things .. my own vet prefers Cipro (the human version of Baytril). Baytril was definitely the way to go on this one.

If anyone else gets such a bad case of paratyphoid, do NOT try to lance and drain the boils. I did this once and got out a large amount of fluid, but it just came back. The "texture" of these boils is also fairly thick/dense, and it is difficult to make a "dent" in. The Baytril and supportive care are what makes the difference.

I was also told by some experienced pigeon folks not to lance the boils .. unfortunately I got that advice after I had already tried it.

Here's one link for Amikacin http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic3/amikacin_ids.htm just for some basic info and to verify the spelling of the drug.

I'm glad you brought this topic back up as I would be moritified to have people thinking they needed Amikacin for paratyphoid when they should be using Baytril.

Here's some more links: http://www.oldworldaviaries.com/text...robials_2.html, http://info.med.yale.edu/yarc/vcs/infectives1.htm, http://www.vetsoftware.com/acvc2002-hess1.htm.

Terry

[feralpigeon]

Hi Terry,

Thanks for the clarification and once more all of the great links that you provided. Also, a point well taken about the lancing....with all of the info in here from senior members, it will be quite a resource for members in the future,
thanks to all,

fp

[Birdmom4ever]

Yes, the most up-to-date information I have (including a recent book written by a vet) says that Baytril is best for paratyphoid. Once they recover you should consider vaccinating them with Sal-Bac. We had salmonella in our loft a few years ago, introduced (we think) by rodents getting into the old aviary. I treated the flock with Baytril and then vaccinated them. We continue with vaccinations each year and haven't had a recurrence.

[feralpigeon]

Hi Birdmom4ever,

I'm glad you brought that up because I was wondering if you ran the full prescribed course with the baytril, and the bird was considered cured but a carrier, could you still vaccinate with benefit and no risk to the "carrier"?
Also, would the bird be determined to be a carrier from blood work or fecal float--which is better?

And one last question, do all of the abnormalities from paratyphoid resolve
after the treatment?

Thanks,
fp

[re92346mos]

Baytril is my drug of choice to Terry, but I like to use it only when I have to because it is such a strong drug. When I do use it I use 1/4 Tablet. I have heard it causes fertility problems. Just what I heard. Thank you for the links, I need them for refrences. I just got back from you know where, I am going to see how much work I have on 911. It would be nice to hear what everyone thinks causes the resistance our birds are getting to these drugs and everyones opinion on over medicating birds as preventive measures.

[TAWhatley]

Great post, Rena .. we'll all be following up on your information. We all have to deal with these things, and all input is so very valuable.

Terry

[Maggie-NC]

Hi all. Somehow I missed this thread but thought I'd offer some opinions.

When we started rehabbing birds in the fall of 1993, about the only medications we administered were on an "as needed" basis. For a few years we would get the pigeons past the crisis point and then give them to a fellow rehabber to go in one of her aviaries for awhile before releasing them. After she gave us an aviary she wasn't using, we kept the pigeons until we released them. We never had a problem until a pigeon came in with coccidiosis and we had to treat the entire flock. Now, we routinely treat all of them every six months. We also routinely treat them for worms every 3-4 months. I can't say that I have noticed a resistence to either medication - Sulmet and Pyrentel/Strongid.

I have been looking over all my records while working on the formulary/dosage thread that has been discussed. Last night, something really struck me about those records. From 1993 until about 1999 we had a higher mortality rate than we did from 1999 to now. In 1999, I got with my vet and we decided to begin treating each bird that came in with Bactrim, Nystatin, Pyrantel/Strongid and either Spartrix or Metronidazole. The mortality rate seemed to drop considerably because of that. Of course, anytime you pick up a sick pigeon off the street, you know you may lose him no matter what you do, but the few that died usually died overnight or the next day.

I don't exactly consider our "shotgun" approach with new arrivals quite like I do the preventative medicine we give for coccidia and worms. All I know is it makes a big difference in a pigeon's survival and for now I plan to continue this regimen.

Maggie