medication question

[mr squeaks]

Originally Posted by sabina

look at our cutie-pie! Don't his feathers look better?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ms_sabina/tags/pio/

quite unrelated...you can actually see our whole apt in the pics: when he's perched on the blue lantern, one pic you can see to the end of the kitchen, and the other, you can see thru the "living room" and "bedroom." mr squeaks, we beat you for smallest apt, we definitely have less than 500 sq feet. maybe 400? and ahem i am going to clean that countertop shortly.

Almost sounds like a "Studio" (all one room). However, I, too had a smaller apartment when I was first married. Wish you both ALL THE BEST!

these are the old pictures, in case you want to compare the plumage
http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/tags/sept18/

sabina

p.s. we haven't started the garlic yet, most likely tomorrow.

Pio is lookin' good. Gonna be some spoiled bird, I can tell!

Mr. Squeaks was on Panacur before he was a year old due to round worms. I saw one in his stool and with the meds, he ended up passing SIX more!

Haven't seen anything since and he's almost 3 years old...

[sabina]

Eiuuu! We're going to see the roundworms come out??? Well Aias does 24-hour poop duty, so I guess he gets to look for them!

We had cut back to one feeding a day since he filled his crop pretty well with seeds yesterday. But today, his crop was pretty empty in the evening so we fed him twice. I am very proud of us, finally basing our feedings on crop emptying! FINALLY!!

In terms of Pio being spoiled...well the only problem is that he wants nothing to do with us. He is deathly afraid of us, quivers and shakes when we come near. We can only admire from afar. Sigh. Will he ever like us?

Sabina

P.S. Thanks for all the nice things you all had to say wedding-wise! I would've snuck a look at those pics too!

[mr squeaks]

No, you probably won't see round worms. Don't know. The fecals I had tested with Squeaks were negative, so I was QUITE surprised when that guy showed up! I worked for a Vet at one time and knew a round worm when I saw one. If I remember correctly, Squeaks only took the meds for about 3 days and then again in a week or so. My Vet said that should take care of the problem. He also has pijies and he seemed to be right...no problem since.

Yes, I was able to check out your wedding pictures too! How fun!

Give Pio a BIG HUG for me IF you can get close enough...otherwise, just blow a few kisses! Time, patience and love will make a difference with Pio's reactions, I'm sure.

[Maggie-NC]

When we worm our pigeons we can see some worms in the poop about 2 hours after we've wormed them. They're white and some can be at least 2 inches long. If a bird is badly infested they come out in big clumps. Quite interesting, really!

Sabina, don't worry though. They die as soon as they come out.

[sabina]

We've been giving Pio the Benebac gel that we had left over from previously. How much should we give, how often, for how long?

Sabina

[Maggie-NC]

Sabina, We have never used the gel but do use the powder. You could probably cut it back to one time a day for about another week. With the powder, we use the spoon that comes with it and I would estimate it holds about 1/8 tsp. The package your gel came in should have directions on it.

[sabina]

Hi all,
I posted this stuff in the Duchess thread but this is really the more appropriate place...

Since Sir Duchess, the helmet pigeon we captured is temporarily living with us, we are wondering--is it OK to have both pigeons out flying around at the same time? They do stay away from each other. But do we have to worry about them passing any germs? Pio was treated for coccidiosis and yeast, still has to be treated for roundworm, and hasn't had a check-up since being treated. Sir Duchess seems healthy but hasn't been to the vet. Pio has his own cage, Sir Duchess is housed in a cat carrier.

We finally started Pio on garlic gelcaps. We alternate between hand-feeding seeds and peas/corn. He also gets Benebac. He hasn't gained any weight though (he's been with us 9 days), you think that could be because of the worms?

Sabina

[Reti]

It could be because of the worms that he is not gaining any weight.
I woulld't let them out together yet.
I quarantine new birds for three weeks at least.

Reti

[Maggie-NC]

Hi Sabina, I agree with Reti - keep Sir Duchess and Pio separate for a few more weeks - just to make sure.

Also, how much does Pio weigh now? I am a little concerned that he has not gained any weight for 9 days. The peas and corn simply aren't enough for him. Do try the soaked dog or cat food and keep encouraging him to learn to eat seeds on his own. We use Science Diet Adult (small bites). You don't want it to get mushy, just nice and soft. Try about 1/4 cup of the dog food pellets, pour very hot water to just cover the pellets and maybe 1/2 inch above, cover and let soak. We shake ours about every 15 minutes to make sure all the water is getting on the pellets. Let it cool before you feed Pio. It keeps well in the fridge for at least 3 days.

You can try Nutrical (it is in a tube for dogs) to help add calories. We use about 1/4 to 1/2 inch and dip the pellets in it before you feed.

[sabina]

Pio weighs about 170-175g. At the vet he was 160g. That doesn't really count as gaining weight, right? We do feed seeds as well, and he does eat seeds on his own. I think we just need to feed him more often. Right now we feed him once-twice a day, I think we need to increase to 3 times. We'll get the puppy chow as well.

Sabina

P.S. I told Aias about keeping them separate.

[Maggie-NC]

Sabina, when do you plan to worm Pio? I agree with Reti that worms could be keeping him from gaining weight plus I think he needs to be fed a little more to get additional nutrition.

Have you talked to Fred about the wormer? Maybe he has the Pyrentel that we use, which I know is safe to give at a 150 gram weight. It is gentle and my vet switched us from Panacur to Pyrentel sometime ago.

[sabina]

Aias took Pio to the vet yesterday and no worms!! I guess the garlic worked! On his fecal, there was no coccidiosis or roundworm, but there were a couple yeast buds, so he's back on Nystatin for a week. He also gained weight in the past few days, now he's 200g (on our scale and the vet's). I don't know if it was the garlic/getting rid of the worms, or the fact that he started flying a lot more in the past few days and gained muscle mass. Maybe a combination of the two.

The vet said it was ok for the birds to fly around at the same time since they're both healthy. I don't know. Aias was already leaning in that direction, he didn't understand how they would pass germs if they didn't really go near each other anyway. And if germs pass thru the poop, that could happen even if they're not out at the same time. Hmm right now, they actually both are on the window ledge. I do feel more on the cautious side...maybe you (Reti and Maggie) could explain a little more on the logic of the quarantine? Since Aias is the primary caretaker here...

As for the feeding, we're still feeding seeds, corn, peas glistened with olive oil. I guess we feel reassured by the recent weight gain. But I do think we should get some puppy chow still.

That is the update!

Sabina

[pdpbison]

HiSabina,

Please skip the 'puppy chow'...it is made from truely ghastly and disgusting ingredients of which most of it was diseased, rotting and or downer roadkill, zoo animals, the dead from animal shelters...cooked into oblivian, with rancid animal fats added. Pigeons are Vegan Creatures, not eaters of rotted, diseased and spoiled carrion...and no way could it ever compare to wholesome Seeds and some Goji-Berrys say, with the latter soaked and cut into thirds if feeding via 'Seed-Pop' into their Beak...

Best wishes...!

Phil
Las Vegas

[sabina]

We got some input from our rehabber friend Fred about the logic of quarantine, possible subclinical infections, airborne bacteria, etc. So I think Aias is sufficiently convinced about that. But given we have only 1 room in essence, we can't really effectively quarantine the birds in terms of anything airborne. So now I am STRESSED thinking we may have exposed Pio to more illness, that Sir Duchess may be harboring nasty things...We will take Sir Duchess to the vet asap for some testing.

This is the first time we've had any pigeons who've been able to fly, and I'm wondering...how in heavens name do you guys keep your houses clean? Any tips, strategies, cleaning products...suggestions please!! I am starting to get a bit unhappy about the unhygienic conditions in here. We're not the tidiest people, and we have very little storage space. So the apt is kind of a mess with papers, books, clothes, and cat hair...adding pigeon poo to the mix is um...well you can see what I'm getting at.

Back to cleaning...

Sabina

[Maggie-NC]

Sabina, re the keeping birds separate. Birds are good at hiding illnesses until they get really sick. They may have a disease that will take time to show so a good rule of thumb is to keep them separate for at least 3 weeks. We often keep new birds "in quarantine" even 4-5 weeks, depending on how they look and act. Of course, with squabs/fledglings, I sometimes don't practice what I preach and will put two together if they both appear to be ok. It seems to keep them happier.

I sure don't want to get into a fuss with Phil about the dried food but I have used Science Diet Adult Small Bites for many, many years and have no problems with it.