Need Advice

[Lovebirds]

I went out to the loft this morning, heard a comotion in one of the individual breeding pens. When I stepped to the door, I was in shock. The hen was standing there pulling the feathers out of her 11 day old baby and eating them. Of course he was slapping her with his wings and squeaking as I'm sure it was hurting. I immediatly took the babies out. Waited about 15 minutes and put them back in. She came back and starting doing the same thing. I took them out again for about two hours. I just put them back in, Mom and Dad came and fed them both, then she started in on the babies again, pulling feathers. Has anyone seen this before? I'm thinking that feathers are made of protein, right? Can it be she's not getting enough protein???? The feed I was feeding is 15% plus I was adding safflower and they get peanuts every day. I have some feed that is 17%, so I pulled all the feed from the breeders and switched them out. I haven't noticed any other of the birds doing this. Any suggestions?? I've got the babies out of the breeding pen for now, but I'll either have to hand raise them, or do you think if Mom gets on the 17% feed she'll be ok in a little while. I'll be in and out so I'll check back here in a while. Thanks in advance for ANY help.

[Birdmom4ever]

Poor baby! I'm as mystified as you are as to why mom would do this. I had the same thing happen years ago with a canary hen, but have never seen such behavior in pigeons. The worst problem I've had with pigeons was a hen who wanted to nest again too soon and neglected her chicks, but I've never seen one pull her baby's feathers.

I think you're trying all the right things: added protein, putting the chicks back and monitoring closely. It's always best to have parents feed them if possible, but if she continues feather pulling you'll have to hand raise the chicks, as you said. My only other thought is calcium. Is it possible she's craving extra calcium? I'm sure you give them grit, but perhaps this hen needs more, such as calcium gluconate in the water. Do you have pickstones? I think they provide some extra calcium plus trace minerals. Just a thought. Is she a first time mom?

11 days is getting up there for fostering, but do you by any chance have a "childless" pair on wooden eggs who could foster these babies? We have a pair of archangels that are such good parents they have taken in chicks that age and raised them the rest of the way. The timing was off but it didn't matter because at that point the chick was being fed primarily grain.

Hopefully some other breeders will be along shortly.

[Reti]

I wouldn't take any chances in putting the babies back with the mother.
Even if you increase the protein in their diet. It sounds like she is getting enough protein anyway.
For some reason she is pecking at the baby and chances are she will do it again. I wouldn't trust her with those babies for now.
If you can hand feed them, then I would do so. The babies are old enough now and past their crop milk stage, so formula should be fine for them until they start self feeding.

I am sorry this happened. I haven't had this, but I did read similar stories.

Keep us posted, please.
And good luck with the little ones.

Reti

[Lovebirds]

I've got the babies out in the hall way for now, they are not with the parents. I will not leave them there unsupervised. As far as calcium, they have pick stones, grit and egg shells. They get vitamins in the water twice a week. If I have to hand raise them, I will........... I do have two sets of parents on one baby each. One is 9 days old and the other is 6 days old. I tried putting one baby with the 9 day old, but Mom pecked at it. I didn't trust her to leave it in there. They say, once the feathering starts showing, it's harder to foster and I think there is to much difference in a 6 and an 11 day old to put one in that nest. If Mom was just pulling feathers, well, I don't know what I would think then, but she is actually pulling them out of the shaft and swallowing them. I saw her do it over and over. This is so weird. And no, these are not first time parents, in fact, this is one of our best breeding pair and they are both 2000 birds.

[cyro51]

Perhaps she needs some animal protein? As far as I remember feral pigeons eat insects and small snails when they are breeding (not that I am advising that you feed snails, but perhaps some clean form of animal protein!).

I copied this from a forum on poultry but I imagine the cause is the same:

Birds will start pulling and eating feathers if they need more protein, which will lead to cannibalism. Often they need a protein boost when they go into a molt to replace the protein needed for new feathers

Many of the vitamins that pigeons need are found in animal protein, if it isn't provided they have to find it where they can:

Dr. Leon F. Whitney said it this way:
"Vitamin B12 (animal protein factor). Pigeons must have this vitamin to live and reproduce but they can live even if it is not supplied in their rations. How? By eating their droppings. If anyone does not believe that pigeons consume droppings, he should watch pigeons on a straight grain diet. He will see them picking at piles of droppings. ..."

Cynthia

[Lovebirds]

What could I give her that would have animal protein in it? I'll try anything. I just put the babies back in the pen. Dad fed them, then Mom fed them and she's sitting on them now. She's still "sort of picking" at their feathers, but not like a couple of hours ago when she was literally pulling them out. Now it's more like a "grooming" sort of pick. Hard to explain. I'm still watching them though for a while to see how they do.

[Lovebirds]

I don't know why this would be a problem as it's never been an issue before, but our weather has been so nice, 70 here today, that after the babies get about 9 days old, I take thier nest bowl and set it in the floor by the aviary instead of leaving them up on the shelf in the dark all day. I pulled these two youngsters from the floor and put them back on the shelf. It's been a few hours now and I've not seen Mom eating feathers. Maybe she didn't want them in the floor???????????? Who knows what these birds are thinking. Anyway, I'm still monitoring the situation but it everything seems to be ok now. Maybe she was just having a "bad moment"

[cyro51]

I will do a little research about animal proteins and pigeon diets but (cannibalistic though it sounds) chopped chicken is one of the things recommended!

This is from an old post of Snowbird's: " Though the following are not necessary everyday, they are also essential to optimum health, so once you get these basics down, other things people use are various forms of garlic, brewers yeast, various oils (fish, cod liver, olive, etc.), various teas, Apple Cider Vinegar (Tsp per gallon in the water), electrolytes, bits of animal protein (mash a pinch of dried dog food and mix with the seed), good soil/clay, prebiotics, and other supplements. "

Cynthia

[Lovebirds]

Well, I finally have brought the youngsters in to finish hand raising them. I had checked on them frequently throughout the day and all seemed fine, but I just went to the loft. It's dark now but the lights are on in the loft and I can stand outside the loft and see into this particular breeding pen. There Angel was, standing in her babies bowl, picking away. I went into the loft very quietly and stood and watched her. She was picking and eating feathers again. I figured this has gone on all day and I've spent the biggest part of the day "babysitting" these birds. I can't do that all day for days so I'll just take them and finish raising them. HOPEFULLY, by the time she goes down on her next set of eggs, which shouldn't be but a couple of days and the next set hatch, the 17% feed that I've switched all the breeders to, should kick in and maybe she'll be fine with the next round. Maybe this is just one of those "quirky" things that happened and it won't happen again. I would sure hate to have to stop breeding from this hen because she's produced such great youngsters.

[phantom]

If you supplement calcium, you need to supplement phosphorus at a 2:1 ratio in order for the calcium to be of use. I have gotten this proper ratio with Osteo Form for horses. It is relatively cheap. Don't forget Vitamin D for calcium to absorb. This can be with the sun or UVB light, be sure it has B or it isn't going to help.

Protien can be easily provided with the meal worms and they are very easy to culture yourself.