New Baby - Advice Needed

[pdpbison]

Hi Demi,



Please don't use a children's-wading-pool with two inches of Water in it as a Bird Drinking-Water container.


Use low, shallowish things...Glass Baking Dishes, 'Bowls' or whatever...Glass or Plastic...


Things they can drink from by standing next to it, or perching on the edge of.



She can have her Social Grazing forays with the ferals or other Wild Birds...till she is able to Fly..."Fly" meaning, take off from the ground and getting somewhere by Flying...so, between now and 'that', and while she stilllooks to you for the daily formula-feed, you still have your 'Window' of opportunity.


Best wishes..!


Phil
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[AZWhitefeather]

Originally Posted by demi

* She is already looking very different from these pictures, with much smoother looking feathers which are bigger and longer, too.

** Thank you Cindy, for letting me see your place. It looks wonderful.

She, unfortunately, can no longer stay in the cage.

*** As soon as I put her in ( to the one as big as 30"x18"x18") she starts pacing and it drives me crazy, making me feel that I am torturing her.

**** She accidentally ( squirmed out of my hands and ) landed on the ground yesterday when for the first time I took her outside for a minute -

I had to hold the ladder while my husband went up on the roof to yet again close off the opening to our swamp cooler. Because the garage door to the outside was left open, and the door between the garage and the kitchen was left ajar, I couldn't take the risk of letting the baby alone in the house, hoping that she wouldn't escape, so I took her with me.
Anyway, after landing on the ground, she couldn't fly up, and stayed down on the ground so that I didn't have much trouble catching her.

*** ** By the way, where do you live in Arizona?

Demi

* Judging from her size, she looks like she should be on a seed diet only.
When I know the babies are capable of eating on their own I only offer them seeds. If Fluffy is 'flinging' seeds, looking for her favorites, she is ready to be taken off formula. JMO.

** You're most welcome. The pijjies seem to think it's a pretty place to hang out.

*** It does sound like she's ready to start living life on the wild side.
If everything seems OK with her, in that she is eating on her own, I would suggest d/c'ing the supplement formula feeding & see how it goes.

**** As close as she is to having all her flying abilities, I would take extreme caution letting her out to mingle with the ferals. She just may all of a sudden take off, surprising herself & you, only to find herself in a predicament that you may not be able to get her out of.

*** ** I live in Mesa. Dobson & Baseline area.

Cindy

[demi]

Dear Phil, and Cindy,
I did realize after I set the pool that the water level was too low for them to drink out of it. And so, I put the bowl in the middle of it and filled with water up high enough so that they can perch on the edge and drink.
After a little while being out in the back yard this morning, I found out that YES, she can take off from the ground. Oh, my goodness, I thought, she might just fly off somewhere and never to be seen again. But, she flew up to my head and stayed there for nearly an hour. I scattered 'good' pigeon seeds all over the back yard, waited, and waited for the neighborhood pigeons to come to graze, but for some reason, they didn't come to our yard but stayed in the open lot ( desert with few weeds growing ) across from the back alley when they did come down a few times. Mostly though, they perched on the electrical lines or just staying up on our roof, and never came down to graze. In the mean time, all the ( big black ) ants came to steal the seeds.
The baby just patiently sat on my head, then moved to my shoulder and stayed there the whole time, quietly listening to other birds chirping and doing it herself too. I put her down to eat some seeds off the ground but she didn't even try to peck them. She hurriedly flew up onto my head again, and stayed there.
So, I was outside about 1 and 1/2 hours altogether with her on my shoulder.
Now I know that she CAN fly, taking off from the ground level, would you advise me not to let her do what I did this morning?
And yes, I think she really doesn't need the formula any more. She eats crushed conversion cereal and Finch seeds ( I pick out the longer ones that she seems to avoid because they are still a little too big for her to swallow ), the favorite ones among which being the dark colored small round seeds and the white shiny ones.
I will put the vitamin drop in her water from now on, instead of in her formula.
Does all of this mean that she is ready to be with her own kinds now?
By the way, I did, while I was outside this morning, see a couple of doves ( much smaller than the pigeons and very light brownish colors - they could be Mourning Doves, also) which were near the pigeons on the line, though those two were not together.
Should I fix up the kennel which is my temporary aviary, for the baby? Do you think she can grow up here and eventually mingle with the others?
Or should I try to arrange her transport to you, Cindy?

[AZWhitefeather]

Originally Posted by demi

Dear Phil, and Cindy,
After a little while being out in the back yard this morning, I found out that YES, she can take off from the ground.

* Now I know that she CAN fly, taking off from the ground level, would you advise me not to let her do what I did this morning?

** And yes, I think she really doesn't need the formula any more.

*** Do you think she can grow up here and eventually mingle with the others?

**** Or should I try to arrange her transport to you, Cindy?

* I wouldn't, unless you are prepared & feel she is prepared to be on her own, if she were to fly off.

** Then I would d/c the formula & just let her concentrate on the seeds.
I feed my flock Dove supreme mix. I add peas, corn, lentils & barley to the mix. I haven't had any complaints about the meals thus far.

*** I think so.

**** That's entirely up to you, but she does has an open invitation to come live in our backyard.
We have pigeons & a variety of doves so she won't be lonely.

Cindy

[pdpbison]

Originally Posted by demi

Dear Phil, and Cindy,
I did realize after I set the pool that the water level was too low for them to drink out of it. And so, I put the bowl in the middle of it and filled with water up high enough so that they can perch on the edge and drink.

Hi Demi,



Get the Wading Pool completely away from there...


Just have a few low Bowls of Water.


No 'Wading Pool' anywhere in sight.

After a little while being out in the back yard this morning, I found out that YES, she can take off from the ground. Oh, my goodness, I thought, she might just fly off somewhere and never to be seen again. But, she flew up to my head and stayed there for nearly an hour. I scattered 'good' pigeon seeds all over the back yard, waited, and waited for the neighborhood pigeons to come to graze, but for some reason, they didn't come to our yard but stayed in the open lot ( desert with few weeds growing ) across from the back alley when they did come down a few times. Mostly though, they perched on the electrical lines or just staying up on our roof, and never came down to graze. In the mean time, all the ( big black ) ants came to steal the seeds.

They are probably scared off by the 'Wading Pool'...

The baby just patiently sat on my head, then moved to my shoulder and stayed there the whole time, quietly listening to other birds chirping and doing it herself too. I put her down to eat some seeds off the ground but she didn't even try to peck them. She hurriedly flew up onto my head again, and stayed there.
So, I was outside about 1 and 1/2 hours altogether with her on my shoulder.
Now I know that she CAN fly, taking off from the ground level, would you advise me not to let her do what I did this morning?

She is too insecure...and is perching on you because she does not feel comfortable in the out-doors.

And yes, I think she really doesn't need the formula any more. She eats crushed conversion cereal and Finch seeds ( I pick out the longer ones that she seems to avoid because they are still a little too big for her to swallow ), the favorite ones among which being the dark colored small round seeds and the white shiny ones.
I will put the vitamin drop in her water from now on, instead of in her formula.

If you will get that 'wading pool' totally out of there...the wild Birds m-i-g-h-t be willing to land and graze.


As long as your Dove still feels dependent on you for 'formula' and security...she is very unlikely to fly off.

Does all of this mean that she is ready to be with her own kinds now?

She is NOT ready....she did not get the graduated socialiation-experiences, confidence, experience, she needed.


In Nature, "now" is when she would be getting them, in flying with her parents to graze and forrage with others...AS her parents would continue to feed her...

By the way, I did, while I was outside this morning, see a couple of doves ( much smaller than the pigeons and very light brownish colors - they could be Mourning Doves, also) which were near the pigeons on the line, though those two were not together.
Should I fix up the kennel which is my temporary aviary, for the baby? Do you think she can grow up here and eventually mingle with the others?
Or should I try to arrange her transport to you, Cindy?

Get rid of the 'pool'...


Allow her to graze and forrage with wild others...as YOU stay well back, 12 or 15 feet away...sitting, and staying still...and NOT staring at them.



If she flys onto your head...gently place her back in the grazing area, or, on the ground and urge her to join the others.


Continue formula-feeds...


Good luck..!


Phil
l v

[AZWhitefeather]

Originally Posted by demi

And yes, I think she really doesn't need the formula any more.

Originally Posted by pdpbison

Continue formula-feeds...

Phil
l v

Phil,
Just curious, why suggest to continue with formula feeding when the person who has the bird doesn't feel it's necessary?

Cindy

[demi]

Dear Cindy, Phil, and others,

I just talked to the owner of 'Low Cost Spay & Neuter Clinic' whose name is Sharon. There are not very many doves that come to the yard at the clinic but, she has lots of doves that come to her house. In fact, 6 months ago, a lady came to release her dove there, and she says that I would be welcome if I wished to do the same. She would let me follow her home to release her, when our dove is ready. She is going to be out of town next week, but any time after that it will be all right for me to arrange it.

The dove is already becoming very handful, just as you described, Phil. She demands my attention by flying onto my head and keeps squeaking until she is satisfied. She still wants me to fix her formula, and she is practically unmanageable while waiting for me to give her the food. I have a feeling that I am spoiling her. Is that possible?

I have to wait until the week after next if I were to let her go at Sharon's house. Does it seem a good idea to you?

I tried again going outside becasue I saw a few pigeons in my yard. But, unfortunately when I come out, dogs of the neighbors' on both sides get excited and start barking, letting all the pigeons fly away. I think I have to abandon the idea of letting her acclimate her with the others in my backyard. My neighbors keep their dogs in their yard most of the time during the day. Right now my dove is acting like a spoiled child who can not let go of her mother, demands attention only when she wants it, and being very picky about the kinds of seeds she eats.

She seems to be mature in some ways, but acts baby-like in other ways.

On account of their having (sort of) business, I can not ask our sons to come to visit us just any time. They have to plan ahead of time, if I were to take up Cindy's offer, which may take a long while. Unfortunately, I have no idea when they are planning to do so at this time.

If I take up Sharon's suggestion and offer, I will be able to release her during the week after next at the earliest.

I wished I could let her be with other birds before releasing her, but so far, I have been completely unsuccessful at it. By the way, Sharon lives about 5 miles away from town, where she probably sees deer, skunks, and all kinds of other animals including many small birds that live in the high desert.

I am all open to your advice and suggestions. Is there a possibility that our baby could be so used to me and become non-releasable? I feel that I have lost the 'window of opportunity' to acclimate her with the others, already. Demi

[demi]

I will get rid of the pool, and try again, tomorrow morning.

It's just that the next door neighbor has the same pool sitting upside down next to the dog water to which pigeons come to drink, and I thought they were used to seeing it, and even thought that it could be a very nice bird bath. Now I think of it, though, bird bath is much smaller, standing higher, and very shallow, isn't it?

Whichever option should be decided to be the best, it can not take place right away, unfortunately.

Thanks for your time, as always. Demi

[Jay3]

Hi Demi. Your neighbor may have the same pool, to which the birds have become accustomed. But if you move a pool to the area where the birds feed, and they are not used to seeing it there, then they will be weary of it. Kinda like when you first put up a new feeder. They just watch it for a while, because they don't trust something new in the area. Finally, one brave bird will approach it, and eat from it. Then they all see that it didn't gooble him up. And they will go to it. They have to get used to changes. If they are not used to it, they will just be afraid to go near it. But by the time they get used to it, more time has been wasted. Smaller things, like little dishes are not so threatening to them as a larger pool would be. That's all Phil was trying to tell you, I think.

[pdpbison]

Originally Posted by AZWhitefeather

Phil,
Just curious, why suggest to continue with formula feeding when the person who has the bird doesn't feel it's necessary?

Cindy

It will buy "time" for now, during the Dove's normal Fledgling phase...for the Dove NOT 'flying away' for being allowed to have at least a few socialization forays with the Wild Birds.


At this phase/age...the Dove's Dove-Parents would have continued to feed...as the fledgling is learning to graze, forage...and become socialized to her Wild fellows...during which phase, the Fledgling returns to and or stayes close to the parents...




Phil
l v

[AZWhitefeather]

Originally Posted by demi

Dear Cindy, Phil, and others,

* I just talked to the owner of 'Low Cost Spay & Neuter Clinic' whose name is Sharon. There are not very many doves that come to the yard at the clinic but, she has lots of doves that come to her house. In fact, 6 months ago, a lady came to release her dove there, and she says that I would be welcome if I wished to do the same

she says that I would be welcome if I wished to do the same. She would let me follow her home to release her, when our dove is ready.

** She still wants me to fix her formula, and she is practically unmanageable while waiting for me to give her the food. I have a feeling that I am spoiling her. Is that possible?

I tried again going outside becasue I saw a few pigeons in my yard. But, unfortunately when I come out, dogs of the neighbors' on both sides get excited and start barking, letting all the pigeons fly away.

*** I think I have to abandon the idea of letting her acclimate her with the others in my backyard.

I wished I could let her be with other birds before releasing her, but so far, I have been completely unsuccessful at it.

**** I feel that I have lost the 'window of opportunity' to acclimate her with the others, already.

Demi

* I think that's an awesome offer that Sharon has presented, Demi.
Can't get much better than that.

** And she will, as long as she knows you'll fix it for her.
If you know for sure she's eating enough seeds to get along, there really isn't any need for formula. This just keeps her 'connected' to you & delays her of letting go of the 'apron strings', so to speak. JMO

*** I realize we each have our own method of release, but for me, I've never taken a baby outside to mingle with the flock prior to release & they've all do just fine.

**** Honestly, I really wouldn't dwell on that Demi.
There are a lot of rehabbers who don't have the time to take their babies outside to mingle with a flock, yet they release just fine.

Cindy

[pdpbison]

Hi Demi,



Forays-with-the-feals or with then Wild Birds, for an impending Debutant...are a lot easier if theWild/Feral Birds, and one's self, have already been used to a routine of one's feeding them...


Consider to feed the wild/feral Birds as a way of making friends with them...and, thus, of having them handy to socialize orphan Babys to when you need to.



Once feeling independant...your little Dove should make out fine being able to spend time among pre-release others, where she can gain her confidences within their milieu.


One thing bad about kid's wading pools and trying to get Birds used to seeking water in them...is that young or inexperienced or compromised Birds might misjudge the depth of Water in other people's more deeply filled Kiddie-Pools, and drown.



Phil
l v

[demi]

Thanks, everyone, as always, for the sound advice!

I will make myself visible to those pigeons around our house, give food and water, and let them get used to my being around, so that they wouldn't think of me as an enemy. I did put bows and pie dishes of water all around the back porch. If I keep it up with plenty of clean water, all the time, they probably will break down and come to get it.....

Since I have about 10 days to cut the apron strings from her - right now, thinking to take her to Sharon's place the week after next, I will do what I can to let her be more independent. She has the full use of the garage during the day. I have created a few perches so that from one to another she can fly and get exercise, if she wants to.

She just loves to perch on top of our heads, though. All three of our heads are used as her perches now when she is in the house....I feel sorry for her being alone but, I don't think she feels the same way.....

She is looking more and more like an adult bird every day, with beautiful feathers.

Demi

[AZWhitefeather]

Originally Posted by demi

*I will make myself visible to those pigeons around our house, give food and water, and let them get used to my being around, so that they wouldn't think of me as an enemy.

I did put bows and pie dishes of water all around the back porch. If I keep it up with plenty of clean water, all the time, they probably will break down and come to get it.....

Since I have about 10 days to cut the apron strings from her - right now, thinking to take her to Sharon's place the week after next, I will do what I can to let her be more independent. She has the full use of the garage during the day. I have created a few perches so that from one to another she can fly and get exercise, if she wants to.

** She is looking more and more like an adult bird every day, with beautiful feathers.
Demi

* Just a thought to ponder, Demi.
I don't know your situation as far as space/neighbors go, but if you're putting water/seeds on your patio specifically to get the ferals to stop by so you can 'introduce' Fluffy to them, bear in mind, the ferals may stay long after Fluffy has gone to Sharon's place.
And it's pretty much a given they will invite all their friends to come over as well as bringing their offspring.

I never realized how fast a 'backyard' flock can multiply until I found myself feeding in excess of 100 pigeons when I started out with a cute little flock of about 12. This was 6 years ago & prior to knowing about PT.

If you're prepared to care for a backyard flock, if it were to come down to that, that's great. But if not . . .

** I'll bet she is turning into a real beauty.

Cindy

[pdpbison]

Originally Posted by demi

Thanks, everyone, as always, for the sound advice!

I will make myself visible to those pigeons around our house, give food and water, and let them get used to my being around, so that they wouldn't think of me as an enemy. I did put bows and pie dishes of water all around the back porch. If I keep it up with plenty of clean water, all the time, they probably will break down and come to get it...

Food and Water would be best out in the Center of the Yard...


Porches would not be as 'open'...

Since I have about 10 days to cut the apron strings from her - right now, thinking to take her to Sharon's place the week after next, I will do what I can to let her be more independent. She has the full use of the garage during the day. I have created a few perches so that from one to another she can fly and get exercise, if she wants to.

She just loves to perch on top of our heads, though. All three of our heads are used as her perches now when she is in the house....I feel sorry for her being alone but, I don't think she feels the same way.....

She is looking more and more like an adult bird every day, with beautiful feathers.

Demi

Hi Demi,


I now it's cute...but any Bird slated for relase should not be allowed to acquire the habit of perching on people's Heads.


The idea is to raise them for their sake...and in ways which do not compromise their habits or recourses, as much as possible.


Love them in ways which are as consistant as possible with how they need to Live and behave.


For the duration...please, no more 'Head Perching'...


Best wishes..!




Phil
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