Not sure what the problem is...

[Moleman11]

I took my pigeon Odie out of her cage today to clean it and I noticed she isin't well. I keep her in a nice big rabbit cage and ussually when I open it up she'll fly over and sit up on our air conditioning unit cause it's up high. Today she pretty much fell out of the cage(which sits about 1 1/2 feet above the floor) and was having trouble walking. She can't keep her balance and when she sits down I notice her wings will twitch a little. She can't fly and she just acts weak. I've noticed she hasn't been flying around as much when I let her out lately, but this is the first time anything has really looked wrong. She has the symptoms of PMV including watery poop but she's an indoor bird. She's my only pigeon and she never goes outside. So I don't know how she would have gotten it. I have a vet appointment for first thing tommorow morning but any advice you could give would be great. Thanx Jay

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Moleman,

Sorry to hear about your Odie Has she laid any eggs recently, does she lay a lot of eggs? She might be lacking in calcium, this could lead to a weakened state. If you have any liquid calcium on hand, you could try offering her some. If she's producing a lot of watery droppings, you will want to watch for dehydration as well. Make sure she's drinking enough and if she's not, you may want to syringe her some pedialyte even, if you are comfortable with giving fluids to her. Of course as well, since she's not feeling well, please keep her warm enough.

[Moleman11]

I'm not sure how often she lays because she just laid for the first time last fall...Impaction did occur to me. After she laid her eggs last fall her poop was really watery but it got a little better....now it's back the way it was. After I take her to the vet tommorow I'll definetly go down to the pet store and get some calcium supplement.

[Moleman11]

Ok I just went up and examined her again and I'm almost positive it's eggs....I'm pretty sure I can feel a few up in there. If she's acting this weak does that mean she's impacted?? Or is this normal behavior prior to them laying???

[Pigeonpal2002]

Originally Posted by Moleman11

Ok I just went up and examined her again and I'm almost positive it's eggs....I'm pretty sure I can feel a few up in there. If she's acting this weak does that mean she's impacted?? Or is this normal behavior prior to them laying???

Hi Jay,

I'm not sure if you are really feeling the eggs in there or not. I've never been able to feel them but perhaps you can. You wouldn't feel "a few" though, there would really only be one at a time. She might be having a problem laying it though. Keep her VERY warm, set up a heating pad and lay a towel over it. If you know how or are comfortable in doing, you may want to give her a few drops of olive oil down the throat as this can help lubricate things. You could also moisturize her vent with the oil as well a little bit. Let's hope she's not having a problem passing an egg though.

A hen about to lay will lay down a lot, and get a "hunched" back or "lobster tail" look. Weakness might be a sign of distress. She may be ok, but please do keep a watchful eye over her until you get her to the vet tomorrow. Hopefully an egg will have passed and you'll know come tomorrow that this was what it was.

[Pidgey]

You better go read this while you're at it:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10686

I'll go fetch a skeletal drawing so that you can see if you can determine what's bone and what might be something else. Here it is:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

You can see the two bones that trail backward and are on either side of the vent. You can feel those in the pigeon's back end and they're a little flexible. If you feel a movable, hardened mass, that can either be an egg or one of the things mentioned in that thread on the ruptured oviduct. It's very difficult to tell what shape they are (oval egg versus irregular). That isn't the thing to come on completely suddenly though.

Pidgey

[Moleman11]

Do pigeons normally lay only one egg at a time? The last time Odie layed eggs there were two. She has only layed eggs once since we have had her....so we don't really know whats normal and whats not. We now have her set up with the heating pad...and the drops of olive oil. When I stick my hands in her cage she still bites me, so she still has her spunk...which is a good thing. I don't know if I will be able to sleep tonight.

[Pidgey]

They normally lay one egg and then another about 44 hours later. They only form one at a time. What kind of vet are you taking her to tomorrow? Avian?

Pidgey

[Moleman11]

Well, he does everything really....including birds and reptiles. He's a good vet, and the only one in our town that deals with exotics. He has a bird of his own, that was bound with eggs. I'm not sure what exactly he did to fix it, but he did fix it. This all coming from my mom....who takes better care of her animals than she did her children....lol. If he isn't able to figure out what is going on, I think at that point he would refer us to U of W.

[feralpigeon]

Hi Moleman11,

In addition to some of the other good information that you've received on egg binding, here are a couple of threads for you on eggbinding and what you can do to help the situation:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showth...ght=steam+vent

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showth...ght=steam+vent

Also, I was curious what symptoms you were concerned about that seemed to resemble PMV?

fp

[Birdmom4ever]

Hi Moleman,

Definitely sounds like an egg-related problem. Lack of calcium can cause egg-laying paralysis, the condition you describe where she is unable to fly. But it's normal for hens to get watery droppings around the time they lay. Do you reguarly give Odie pigeon grit? Even if you do, I was also thinking that since she is an indoor bird, she may lack the Vitamin D necessary to absorb it, even if she has grit available to her.

Warmth and a little calcium syrup or Tums may help her until you can get her to the vet. Best of luck.

[Moleman11]

The symptoms that made me think maybe PMV was the watery poop, trembling wings unable to fly and not being able to keep her balance. But I'm almost positive now that it's egg related.

Warmth and a little calcium syrup or Tums may help her until you can get her to the vet.

Birdsmom how do I give her Tums??? Other then warmth thats really all I can give her tonight!

[Pigeonpal2002]

Originally Posted by Moleman11

how do I give her Tums??? Other then warmth thats really all I can give her tonight!

Hi Jay,

You would dissolve one plain, unflavoured (preferably) tums in a small glass of water and syringe a few mls into her.

Other than heat, the olive oil, and some calcium, there isn't really a lot you can do for a hen having laying difficulties. She might be fine though so try not to panic yet.

keep us posted,

[Moleman11]

Well I just got back from the vets and there aren't any eggs. She has a little bit of a respiratory infection so he put her on baytril. I opted not to test for something viral because she's an indoor only bird so the chances of that are very slim....besides I wouldn't be able to do anything much different then keep her comfortable which is what I'm already doing.

I asked him about calcium deffiency because she is an indoor only bird and he said that's possibly whats causing her to be so weak. So now I feel awful cause part of this is probably my fault. I actually just found out a few days ago that glass filters all UV out of sunlight...I always thought she was getting sunlight cause it shines through the window into her cage most of the morning. At least now I know and I can fix it...I just hope she's gonna be ok....

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the update on Odie. Well, at least you have some meds now to try and see if that helps with the possible respiratory problem.

Pick yourself up a good avian multivitamin that contains high levels of vitamin D3 and get some good calcium grit such as crushed oyster shell. You could also grind up a cuttle bone and offer this to her. Get yourself some liquid calcium as well to have on hand in emergencies.

Good nutrition, vitamins, probiotics, ACV (apple cider vinegar) and garlic should all be considered after you're done with the baytril. It's been suggested here however, that when giving baytril, you shouldn't offer any grit at all because it interferes with the medication.

Best wishes and keep us updated on her,