please help..very sick..urgent

[mich537]

hello..just joined the forum..i had brought 2 pigeons about 2 wks back froma local pet store here in my area..1 week back,one of them started some sort of disease n started twisting his neck n goin out of control when this happens.and it happens a lot of times too..now two days back the other pigeon has started showing some other symptom..he would shake his head up n down only the head not including the neck..n of late his condition has worsened
i m nt experienced with pigeons..these are the 2 of the four pigeons that i have brought..first time...so please help..

!!!
pics...i am posting a few pics


the one on left with twisted neck started getting sick first n this is the situation of the other today

[sreeshs]

I think its the disease PMV and it seems to be serious and advanced stages.

[sreeshs]

You belong to which locality ? You may need to contact a vet or a pigeon rescue team immediately please

this does look like pmv and if it is all you can do is supportive care as its a virus and has no cure .. they can get thru it but it takes alot of time for the birds to do so .. please read this link ..http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/pi...eon-12250.html

[Feefo]

Actually for a change I have to say that that neck torsion is more typical of the neurological form of paratyphoid than PMV, I have only seen that in photographs but have always noticed that there is a difference in the "stargazing" associated with both illlnesses.. In my own experience when a pigeon frst develops stargazing as a result in PMV, they look as if turning their heads upside down is the most natural thing in the world. Later on, when they develop fits or they have a fit, it looks twisted, but not as twisted as the pigeon in the second photo.

Perhaps other members with experience of PMV can either confirm this as their experience or confirm that they have seen that degree of torsion in a PMV pidge? Or perhaps someone that has hands on experience of the neurological form of meningitis? I would be inclined to risk Baytril on this occasion, if you can get it as it crosses the blood/brain barrier.

[Ivor]

I think is PMV, if you have more birds just keep them separated, that is a desease and is transmitted only to birds, I found a PMV feral pigeon and the only thing that you can do is to keep them separated with enough food and water but for the water try something not deep because when they have the seizures they throw everything, is hard to see them but if is possible cover then a little bit and keep them in a warm area and quiet, you can talk sweet to them and clean, with some time they will be better, but you have to make sure that they eat, if they don't eat you have to hand feed them, but I hope they can still eat by themselves, with some time you will see the improvement from both birds, my bird was terrible seizures all the time, but still was able to eat by himself, I just let him be there quiet and boring, I put a towel so when they have seizures at least is less painful, so with time he is mostly a normal bird now, doesn't have any seizures anymore the only thing probably is that cannot fly like a normal bird, but the rest he is like another bird and became so pretty now.

So just do that, and with time they will both be better.

Ivette

[Feefo]

I have had at least 34 ferals with PMV, and I really think there is room for doubt here.

Are there any other symptoms consistent with PMV (spinning in circles, pecking and missing, poops formed but in puddles?)

I have e-mailed Pidgey, plamneh, Jules and Nooti to have a look as they have all had PMV patients.

In the meantime here is a sad but infromative video on the neurological symptoms of paratyphoid.

http://www.pigeontv.com/public/113.cfm

[Jaye]

Regardless of which it is...I think it's important to reiterate to Mich that the birds will get thru this OK with the proper care...don't worry, they very likely won't die if you take the right steps.

[Feefo]

Regardless of which it is...I think it's important to reiterate to Mich that the birds will get thru this OK with the proper care...don't worry, they very likely won't die if you take the right steps.

Absolutely! PMV needs supportive care only as it is a virus, but paratyphoid is a bacterial infection and needs antibiotics. The snag is that antibiotics can aggravate the course of PMV. That is why, although I disagree with the use of antibiotics as a prophylactic in cases of PMV I said that in this case I would consider the risk worthwhile...of course, a vet's opinion would be best, unless the vet recommends euthanasia which would be wrong!

[Feefo]

Plamen has just reminded me: whatever they have you must ensure that they get plenty of fluids so they don't become dehydrated, vitamins, probiotics (if not on antibiotics) and they need to be kept warm (heat pad or heat lamp).

[plamenh]

Hi Mich, Please post some pictures of their fresh poop.
Also if you can give more details of their behavior, eating, drinking and if there is any smell that you noticed.
As Jaye mentioned, with proper care, your birds will recover. Keep in mind that they most probably cannot get enough food, you will need to help.
Fluids are extremely important as Fefo said. If they are dehydrated they symptoms will become worse.
Do you have any medicines on hand and do you have a Vet in your area?

[Pidgey]

Incidentally, I was talking to one of my avian vets the other day about which antibiotics would work best crossing the blood-brain barrier. He said something to the effect that they don't usually cross, but when there's an infection, they kinda' let their guard down and then some antiobiotics will cross fairly easily. He didn't mention Baytril, but did mention Trimethoprim/Sulfa and Penicillin. Anyhow, if I were going to try and take a shot at these birds in assuming that it's Paratyphoid, I'd go with one of those. If the Penicillin, I'd probably try to get injectable and so treat.

Pidgey

[Pidgey]

Looking at the color on those poops on the paper, though... I might worry that it's getting pretty late if the actual urates are that horrible electric bluegreen color. When you see them start getting like that, it's time to hit 'em with a shotgun blast because there's organ involvement. That's IF... the urates are green.

Pidgey

[Feefo]

He said something to the effect that they don't usually cross, but when there's an infection, they kinda' let their guard down and then some antiobiotics will cross fairly easily. He didn't mention Baytril, but did mention Trimethoprim/Sulfa and Penicillin. Anyhow, if I were going to try and take a shot at these birds in assuming that it's Paratyphoid, I'd go with one of those. If the Penicillin, I'd probably try to get injectable and so treat.

Thanks Pidgey...the "Baytril and blood/brain barrier" is something I picked up on a forum without double checking ...maybe one of those things that is considered true by repetition rather than proof !

[mich537]

ok...i forgot to mention..the one on the right side is not feeding at all what so ever...the other one can drink as well as feed pretty good.the poop is very watery n with some electric green color as someone mentioned...i have no idea how to hand feed them..i have been putting b complex,n chloroquine tabs in the water as some of my friends said...the one on the right just shakes his head and at other times wud just curl up his neck like in 2nd pic..other one from time to time gets his neck twisted like in the pic n moves around trying to get back in control n within about 5 - 10 secs gets back to vertical base..

pls tell how to feed manually n what to feed..