pox AGAIN?

[jenfer]

I'm rather unnerved because one of my rehab birds seems to have developed pox.

He's a juvenile who I've had for a week now. I picked him up because he was perched on a window sill outside, looking off for a couple of days. He's been polyuric/polydipsic from day one. A stain/float showed nothing other than some coccidia, which he's now getting Albon for.

He's got two cutaneous lesions: one on his cere that's only slightly raised, and another one on the left side of his beak, right at the upper/lower beak junction. That second lesion is white and raised. They seem to have erupted overnight.

I have another pox bird, but her cage is across the room (about 25') from his. I sincerely hope he didn't catch it from her. (I already have her as separated from the others as is possible, change clothes to handle and handle her last, washing my hands as well as bleaching the areas around her afterward, so I don't know how much more I can do.)

Could he have been incubating pox for the last week? I know PU/PD often is a symptom of PMV, but I'm wondering if it can also be a symptom of a viral infection generally.

Now that he's showing symptoms, must I keep him until the lesions disappear? He's a youngster and has been so eager to leave lately.

Jennifer

[cyro51]

Hi Jennifer,

The incubation period for pigeon pox is 5 - 15 days, so he could have been incubating it on arrival. He would not have caught it from your other patient unless there was a blood sucking insect involved as vector.

You will have to wait until all the lesions are clear, as far as I remember the virus will be in the lesions/scabs and survives for a long time in there. If the lesion falls in water then other pigeons can become infected .

One vet recommended giving pigeons with pox Echinacea, to strengthen the immune system.

Cynthia

[jenfer]

Thanks for that, Cynthia.

Most of my rehab birds seem to harbor a pigeon fly or two. I've noticed that topical ivermectin doesn't seem to kill them right away (I've seen flies on a bird days after topical ivermectin tx). It's possible that a fly bit Polly (first pox bird) and later fed on Linus, but it seems very unlikely to me.

I wonder if I can give him some Moducare (plant sterols), which is used to boost the immune system. (Don't have any echinacea on hand, but I do have the Moducare along with Transfer Factor, astragalus, and homeopathic Bioplasma.)

It's going to be so tough on him saying for another few weeks because he seems to feel fine. I've had to move him across the room, away from the window; hope the lack of view doesn't depress him too much.

Jennifer

[feralpigeon]

Jenfer,

Dr. Speer recommends using Sevin or Scalex for blood sucking insects.
If only using Ivermectin, a pigeon fly or mosquito has to bite the pigeon
before it dies from the Ivermectin (this includes topically administered
Ivermectin or Moxidectin. The Sevin or Scalex would act as a "first line
of defense" so that the insect wasn't able to take the first bite to begin
with.

I brought a rescue into my home without spraying once, and a fly
jumped ship and bit another of my rescues and passed the pox along.
Interestingly enough, the baby rescue that carried the fly never came
down w/pox, but was from a location where pox was "flying" through
the feral flock.

Dr. Speer, affirming Cynthia's cautions regarding early release, also said that the blood products around the lesions and the
lesions themselves are highly contagious. He recommended making
a solution of one gallon of water and 1/2 cup of bleach and cleaning utensils,
cage, etc. w/this to avoid spreading the virus to other birds. He also recommended plucking the feathers when possible around the lesions and also when possible applying Hydrogen Peroxide undiluted to the lesions to
keep clean and help dry.

I ended up washing my hands w/the bleach solution to make sure that
I didn't "cross-pollinate" the virus to other birds.

fp

Originally Posted by jenfer

Thanks for that, Cynthia.

Most of my rehab birds seem to harbor a pigeon fly or two. I've noticed that topical ivermectin doesn't seem to kill them right away (I've seen flies on a bird days after topical ivermectin tx). It's possible that a fly bit Polly (first pox bird) and later fed on Linus, but it seems very unlikely to me.

I wonder if I can give him some Moducare (plant sterols), which is used to boost the immune system. (Don't have any echinacea on hand, but I do have the Moducare along with Transfer Factor, astragalus, and homeopathic Bioplasma.)

It's going to be so tough on him saying for another few weeks because he seems to feel fine. I've had to move him across the room, away from the window; hope the lack of view doesn't depress him too much.

Jennifer

[jenfer]

Dr. Speer recommends using Sevin or Scalex for blood sucking insects.

Well, Sevin is carbaryl and Scalex is pyrethrin, neither of which I'm comfortable using indoors (because of their potential toxicity to mammals--thinking of my cats here, not myself).

(Some info on Sevin here for anyone interested
http://www.beyondpesticides.org/info...c/CARBARYL.HTM)

So this is kind of a problem. I noticed that flies were also jumping off the ferals who eat at my window and into the house (!!!). I think I've been able to catch most, if not all, of them without them biting anyone (pigeons in that room are all in carriers or cages, and I've found pigeon flies to be not very good at seeing or flying once they're off their host and there's not another host immediately nearby).

I wonder if I can manage to spray them outside before I bring them in. Hard to do with two hands without risking escape, I suppose.

One strange thing, though, is that a fly landed on one of my cats (fly was summarily dispatched as soon as she was discovered)! I don't know if it actually tried to bite him, but it was kind of disturbing.

I would think that most ferals have already been exposed to pretty much everything, and that the healthy ones should have some kind of immunity. I'm also wondering if the stress of his captivity (weeks upon weeks in a small carrier for a bird who feels healthy is going to be stressful) is counterproductive to fighting the virus.

I wish there were someone who could quarantine these birds for me. I've got a houseful of long-term (unreleaseable) birds here.

Thanks,
Jennifer

[jenfer]

fp,

Do you know why Dr. Speer recommends Scalex in particular? There are other pyrethrin-based sprays out there, and I would assume they would work just as well also.

I'm thinking of getting a bottle and keeping it at work (where I find most of my rehab birds) and spraying them there before bringing them home.

Jennifer

[jenfer]

Well, the pox lesions seem to be growing in size and number. The ones on his beak are larger and now bumpy and slightly reddened.

Now he's got one each on two of his toes (perhaps from scratching his face, although I have not seen him do this).

I was using hydrogen peroxide on the two beak lesions for a couple of days but stopped because it didn't seem to have any effect.

Ideas?

Jennifer