sick pigeon.. please help!

heya
i was wondering if someone could possibly help me. i found a pigeon yesterday, he was flapping on a pavement as we were driving by so we stopped and picked him up.
at first i thought that he had been clipped by a car and was going to take him to the vets but fortunately it was a sunday so they weren't open. i spoke to a friend of mine who, like me, loves all animals and she told me to bring him home and put him in a box.. basically he would either make it or not.
i brought him home, made a box up for him that big enough for him to flap, put lukewarm water with a pinch of sugar, wild bird seed, kale and newspaper in and a hot water bottle underneath to keep him warm and covered him over to leave him to rest.
he's really wobbly on his legs and can't walk, at first i thought he had bit hit by a car but he has no sign of injury, last night i held him and he relaxed in my hands so i examined him as well as i could without worrying him, he feels very thin.. you can feel all of his breast bone, he has a ping pong sized lump on his back towards the base of his spine over to the left and one underneath his chin. his wings are strong but completely disorganised when he flaps ..he seems to flap one and then the other. his eyes are bright and his droppings are solid and green. i placed him on the floor as he was flapping to see what he'd do and he walked as though he was drunk.. he falls over on to his beak and doesn't seem to be able to take more than 2 steps without falling.
he's the sweetest pigeon i've met, i've never kept pigeons before so if someone could help me i would be very grateful. i'm waiting for the vet to call me back but i'm worried that if he's ill and treatable i might miss this by the vet saying he needs to be put to sleep (i know that's their answer to a lot of wild bird problems.. especially pigeons).
also.. if this is an illness is it likely to be contagious.. i have 8 rats, 1 budgie, 1 cat, fish and snails and i wouldn't want to put them at any risk..
please help me.. i want to do what's best for all concerned
take care and kindest regards to everyone who reads this!
btw i'm near reading, uk in case anyone is nearby who can offer help!

[amyable]

Hi Maisy,

Thanks for stopping to help this poor bird. I don't have the experience to say what the lumps might be but hang on and I'll try and get some someone who may be better able to give a suggestion.

I see you have contacted a vet, and you're right that they may just suggest PTS. If you can get the vet to see the bird with you and make them aware that you are willing to take on it's care if they can help him. Then we can sort out some help for you.

Stay in touch and we'll do what we can,

Janet

[maisy]

i've just been to check on him and he seemed a bit perky so i lifted him out and put him on the floor so that he could stretch/flap properly if he wants. he took 5 steps without falling but these were in a circle.
i've made some warm water, salt and sugar mix and after splashing my fingers in it he pecked at me in a preening way so i made a puddle on my hand and he drank some.
i think he's hungry but i'm not sure what i can feed him. i've given him wild bird food, bread with water on it (thought if he's a town bird he's probably used to scraps and if it gets him to eat a little, just to motivate him), cat biscuits squashed in water but he's not eating, he's pecked my hands a few times and wobbled onto my hand to sit on it, i thought it was by chance but he's done it a couple of times now so maybe he's used to humans.
he also did a poo and this time it was creamy white but without the solid bit in the middle...is this ok?

[amyable]

Hi Maisy,

Well it's good he's still fighting back and is ok being near you.

I have sent a message to Cyro51, (Cynthia), who has a lot more knowledge. I am wondering if it's possibly Paratyphoid, that would fit with the going round in circles, and also does produce boils, but I'm not sure if they are what this one has. If so it can be treated with anti-biotics.

His poops aren't showing any signs of eating, the white is the urine part. They produce dark green bile type poops if they are starving, so no sign of that yet.

Great that he's drinking the re-hydrating solution. You can dip his beak (only up to his nostrils) into the water and see if he will take it that way. If not, drip some along the side of it's beak for him to get the fluids.
An easy thing to feed to make sure he's getting some sustainance would be some defrosted peas or sweetcorn. Once defrosted, just gently open his beak and pop one in at a time, and see if he is able to swallow them. This also gives him some fluid.
Don't over fill him at this stage as his system might not be able to process them so well at the moment.
He does need to be warm before you feed him, that's why he probably settled down in your hands, due to the warmth. Are you keeping him on a water bottle wrapped in a towel or on a heating pad for the time being?

The things you've given him to eat are ok.
Do you think it's an adult, if it has any yellowy feathers around the head and neck area, he may be a youngster, and therefore not quite used to feeding himself totally.

By the way, have you had a look in his mouth and throat to see if there is any sign of yellow growths? If there are it could have canker, which again is treatable. Let us know about that too.

Have you had any feedback from the vet?

Janet

[amyable]

Maisy,

I'm out for half an hour now, will check back then.

Janet

[maisy]

hi janet,

thank-you very much for your help and for contacting someone else who may be able to help.

i haven't heard back from the vet yet, i did call the vet medic number and he told me to take him to the vets - the sooner he's treated, unfortunately i would like to see my vet (not a random) as i feel i would be able to talk to him more and he is less likely to say the pigeon should just be PTS.

he is on a hot water bottle to keep him warm, i've put him back in his box so that he's warm and safe. i'm going to defrost some peas and try him on those and if i haven't heard from my vet in the next hour i'll call him again.

the pigeon seems quite bright, his eyes are open but he's fluffed up (if i was feeling ill i think i'd fluff up too) and he's managing to stand on his feet with his legs stretched which is a new improvement. i can't see any yellowy feathers so he could be a youngster. when i feed him peas i'll check his mouth for yellow bits.. any tips on how to get him to open his beak? i'm used to cats, small mammals.. i'm not sure with pigeons.

thanks again it's really nice to know that people care out there and that pigeons aren't as hated as ken livingstone would have us believe.

[amyable]

Hi,

I'm back. Just had a thought as I was walking the dog. Can you part the feathers and see if the lumps are under the skin. Alternatively is there any scabbing showing it might be an external injury site?

To have a look in his beak, if he's not struggling and quite happy on your lap, gently hold his head from behind with one hand with your thumb and fore finger either side of his beak, gently encourage him to open his beak with the nail of your other forefinger. This a good way to pop in a pea or seed too.
If he struggles, wrap him in a towel and place him on your lap.

Being fluffed up is a sign that they're not feeling well. That's great that you're keeping him warm and hydrated.

If you can't see any yellowy fluffy feathers he must be an adult.

You're doing a really good job, thank you for caring,

Janet

[amyable]

Hi again,

Just wondered if you were able to post a picture of the lumps, might give us a better idea as to what they might be.

[maisy]

heya
hope you had a nice walk. i've tried to part the feathers on his back and i can't see any wound or outside mark.. it's like a lump or a bump, it's quite solid to the touch but as i don't really know whether he is injured or sick i don't want to poke him too much as i'm not used to looking after pigeons.
he was sat in the food when i popped my head in a few minutes ago so i'm hoping that means he's tried to eat but i'm going to try peas in a little bit to see if he's interested.. i might just hold them in front of him and see if he pecks at me again.
unfortunately i can't care for him completely as i go away on wednesday but my friend, who's a retired vet. pratice nurse and who's reared greenfinches by hand from being pink chicks, mentioned she might take him in. i wouldn't just want to leave him or give him to the vet.
i always feel sad for pigeons especially when you see them hobbling without feet etc after they've been caught in the 'anti-pigeon' wire at some point in their life.. it's sad that they, like other animals, can't ask us for help if they need it and so many people don't notice.
thanks again for your help
louise

[maisy]

i won't be able to post pictures until this evening.. i'm honestly awful with technology and wouldn't know how to get the photo's from my phone to the pc (some cable or other).. but if he's still in my care this evening i'll get my partner to help me and post some (although hopefully by then the vets will have called me and i might even have managed to get him seen).
take care.

[Feefo]

Hi Maisy,

This video shows how to open a pigeon's mouth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow

Please let us know how you get along at the vets. It could be that he was hit by a car or he could be suffering from canker http://www.pigeon-aid.org.uk/pa/html/canker.html, paratyphoid http://www.pigeon-aid.org.uk/pa/html/paratyphoid.html or Pigeon Paramyxovirus http://www.pigeon-aid.org.uk/pa/html...rus__pmv_.html all of which are treatable.

Cynthia

[amyable]

Hi Louise, I know what you mean about the technology bit. I had to get my daughter to write me a programme on how to post pictures from my camera to the net !

That's lucky you know someone who is happy with birds and caring for them. Unfortunately when vets take in a sick wild bird, unless there is someone willing to carry on the treatment needed, they don't have the facilities to keep them, so tend to PTS even though there is something that can be done.

I hope they are able to treat this little one. Do keep us posted, it's good to know how things turns out.

Janet

[maisy]

heya,
just a quick update and thanks for all of your help.

my friend collected him this afternoon so he's now her capable hands.

before she collected him i managed to get him to eat by placing my hands either side of his head and the saucer like blinkers where there were peas, bird food and shelled sunflower seeds, this helped him to co-ordinate his attempt at getting the seeds and he ate some he also had a good drink of the salt, sugar and water mix so hopefully he's feeling a little better.

i'm copying this link to my friend so she knows what has been said. Thank-you very much for all of your help, i'll update you when i hear anything about him.. also thank-you valerie for taking him in and keeping him safe!

take care

louise

[amyable]

Hi Louise,

Thanks for letting us know, it's good that he's in such caring hands, although I must say you have done a brilliant job so far.

Did you get to the vets in the end?

It's hard to say what the lumps are and whether they are connected in any way to his balance problem.
That was the perfect way to help him feed by the way, I had a pigeon a while ago that had PMV and couldn't support his head for a while. That was the only way he could feed himself until he regained the ability to hold his head up again. You sound like a natural.

It may be he needs some meds but Valerie, with her background will know if a vet's diagnosis is needed in the long run.

It would be good to know how he gets along. We can learn something from that, so yes, please do keep us posted. (or Valerie of course! ).

Well done for what you did for him,

Janet

[maisy]

hi janet,

thank-you for your kind words, i'm just glad that i did something to help him.. it's sad i miss him even though he was only in my flat for 24hrs.

i didn't get to the vets but i did speak to him on the phone and he mentioned something about the pigeons collarbone and to look in his mouth, this has all been relayed to valerie who i have great confidence in.

before he left he stood on the floor like a healthy pigeon almost tall and straight.. i hope that he recovers.

take care,

louise x