Smelly crop, black poop, puffed feathers?

[Charis]

Originally Posted by Janet

I didn't. However, she gave me an xtra pill. She just said to keep an eye on them. However, I will probably get on the ball and buy stuff from Foys. Giving them that when their not sick will be safe right?

Yes, it would be safe.
I think you should see improvement, in the bird you took to the ,soon. How long are you supposed to give her the medication?
Your others may not look sick but they still could be. Birds pretend they are ok, when sick, for as long as they can. It's a natural defense against predators. In the wild, a bird that is noticeably sick, would be a target. when you notice your bird is sick...it's really sick.

[Janet]

My vet said the exact same thing about them pretending not to be sick for as long as they can b/c of predators. As long as its safe I will do it. Since I found out how long they can live, I have a feeling I will run into many other problems somewhere down the line. Its so nice to know that so many people are willing to teach and help. I was told to give the bird 1 dose of 125m. That was it. I was telling my hubby that maybe we should give her the other one. I don't know how long it takes to take effect. We gave it on Friday. I guess I wanted her to be better overnite. How long till she stops pooping yellow? I'm a bit confused on why her poop for 2 days was black tar looking. Now its yellow, runny and foamy. I don't want to overdose the bird. Should I wait till Monday to either give her the other dose or contact the vet.

[jbangelfish]

Originally Posted by Janet

My vet said the exact same thing about them pretending not to be sick for as long as they can b/c of predators. As long as its safe I will do it. Since I found out how long they can live, I have a feeling I will run into many other problems somewhere down the line. Its so nice to know that so many people are willing to teach and help. I was told to give the bird 1 dose of 125m. That was it. I was telling my hubby that maybe we should give her the other one. I don't know how long it takes to take effect. We gave it on Friday. I guess I wanted her to be better overnite. How long till she stops pooping yellow? I'm a bit confused on why her poop for 2 days was black tar looking. Now its yellow, runny and foamy. I don't want to overdose the bird. Should I wait till Monday to either give her the other dose or contact the vet.

If you are talking about the Metronidizol, it should be given for two or three days consecutive to cure canker and it will cure it.

As to treating your whole flock for it, I would not and never have. I have never in over 50 years of observing pigeons and nearly 50 years of raising them, seen an entire flock with canker.

I have also never seen a bird try to act as if they were not ill. They may be ornery and try to keep others away but there should be signs of illness if you observe carefully. Some are better at spotting this than others and it seems that women are often more in tune with an animal being out of sorts than men are. My wife has always been better at noticing if a cow, cat, dog, fish or bird was not feeling up to par than I have been, even though I have far more experience in raising them than she has. It seems that their mothering and nurturing instincts are better. This is why milkmaids were chosen over men as they knew when a calf or cow was ill.

Keep an eye on the feces, if they stay green, I would follow this treatment with something for Paratyphoid and for this I would treat the entire flock with a Sulpha drug such as Albon or Sulmet. This will treat and insure against Paratyphoid and Coccidiosis. These problems tend to travel through the whole flock as do worms.

The bird has to get over canker first and it may also have worms as it apparently was treated for them as well. These are two strong meds in a short period and I prefer to wait awhile. Worms and Paratyphoid are rarely fatal (although they can be) unless in a very advanced stage.

I always follow any medications with vitamins for a few days or a week. I do not like to give any more meds for at least a month.

Bill

[Charis]

Originally Posted by jbangelfish

If you are talking about the Metronidizol, it should be given for two or three days consecutive to cure canker and it will cure it.

As to treating your whole flock for it, I would not and never have. I have never in over 50 years of observing pigeons and nearly 50 years of raising them, seen an entire flock with canker.

I have also never seen a bird try to act as if they were not ill. They may be ornery and try to keep others away but there should be signs of illness if you observe carefully. Some are better at spotting this than others and it seems that women are often more in tune with an animal being out of sorts than men are. My wife has always been better at noticing if a cow, cat, dog, fish or bird was not feeling up to par than I have been, even though I have far more experience in raising them than she has. It seems that their mothering and nurturing instincts are better. This is why milkmaids were chosen over men as they knew when a calf or cow was ill.

Keep an eye on the feces, if they stay green, I would follow this treatment with something for Paratyphoid and for this I would treat the entire flock with a Sulpha drug such as Albon or Sulmet. This will treat and insure against Paratyphoid and Coccidiosis. These problems tend to travel through the whole flock as do worms.

The bird has to get over canker first and it may also have worms as it apparently was treated for them as well. These are two strong meds in a short period and I prefer to wait awhile. Worms and Paratyphoid are rarely fatal (although they can be) unless in a very advanced stage.

I always follow any medications with vitamins for a few days or a week. I do not like to give any more meds for at least a month.

Bill

Bill...I take issue with you. I've been observing for longer.

[jbangelfish]

Originally Posted by Charis

Bill...I take issue with you. I've been observing for longer.

Observing what? I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

Bill

[TheSnipes]

Hi Janet,
I think since you've already lost 1 bird to canker and have another that is displaying symptoms and being treated for it by a vet - which means it's a near certain diagnosis - you had better treat the whole flock. Most of them carry trich and are resistant under normal circumstances, but any stress brought on by other factors which puts them out of balance can reduce their resistance. There is certainly no harm in flock treating for canker, and given your present circumstances I would not hesitate. I would not risk the health and even the lives of my other birds on the chance that they might not get sick. It does not have to be the case that your entire flock is symptomatic before it becomes wise to address the issue.

[AZWhitefeather]

Could you describe your setup, Janet, e.g., How many pigeons occupy what amount of space?

Cindy

[Janet]

Our loft is:
8 feet high
8 feet wide
14 feet long

We have 19 adult and 4 babies

I would put up a photo but I think you need a digital camera. I haven't invested in one of them as I haven't really needed to yet.

Do we need a larger loft? We actually have a slider where we can shut 65% of the loft off and keep some birds on one side and others on the other side. We usually only do that when the weather is cold. One side is more open to outside air than the other. Although the other side isn't completely shut out from fresh air. Also, we didn't have that many birds back then either. We had made it bigger since the birds seem to have multiplied overnite.

[Charis]

You are going to love those wooden eggs!

[Lovebirds]

Originally Posted by Janet

Our loft is:
8 feet high
8 feet wide
14 feet long

We have 19 adult and 4 babies

I would put up a photo but I think you need a digital camera. I haven't invested in one of them as I haven't really needed to yet.

Do we need a larger loft? We actually have a slider where we can shut 65% of the loft off and keep some birds on one side and others on the other side. We usually only do that when the weather is cold. One side is more open to outside air than the other. Although the other side isn't completely shut out from fresh air. Also, we didn't have that many birds back then either. We had made it bigger since the birds seem to have multiplied overnite.

Janet, that's plenty of room for the number of birds you have. As long as there are enough perches (there should be 1 1/2 per bird) you could put around 40 birds in there comfortably. The calculations say 56 birds, but I always try to stay on the low side. Better for the birds, for you AND your pocketbook.

[Maggie-NC]

Originally Posted by Janet

My vet said the exact same thing about them pretending not to be sick for as long as they can b/c of predators. As long as its safe I will do it. Since I found out how long they can live, I have a feeling I will run into many other problems somewhere down the line. Its so nice to know that so many people are willing to teach and help. I was told to give the bird 1 dose of 125m. That was it. I was telling my hubby that maybe we should give her the other one. I don't know how long it takes to take effect. We gave it on Friday. I guess I wanted her to be better overnite. How long till she stops pooping yellow? I'm a bit confused on why her poop for 2 days was black tar looking. Now its yellow, runny and foamy. I don't want to overdose the bird. Should I wait till Monday to either give her the other dose or contact the vet.

Janet, could you explain a bit more on that dosage? 125 m? That is an exceptionally high dosage for metronidazole. After you crushed the pill did you mix it with anything - like water? - and if so, how much water? We usually crush one pill, mix with 10 cc (or ml) of water and then dose according to the weight. I know with Spartrix (another canker med) that you give one pill so maybe your vet is going that route with the metronidazole although we've never used it that way. We dose for seven days straight.

[Janet]

Okay- I have the pill bottle in front of me. The vet only had 250 mg and 500 mg tablets there. (Metronidazole) Because of the weight of the bird, she gave me a 250 mg tablet and broke it in half. I was told to take the 1/2 pill and crush it as fine as I could. Then mix it w/ alittle water. Pull it up in a syringe and give orally. Now how much water was used I don't know. I had taken the bird to the vet. I was there for 1 3/4 hours. My husband was getting ready to come home from work and I still had to get back to work. When I was finished at the vet, I dropped her off at home and put her in a spare room inside our house. We had turned it into a pigeon room. We had previously raised Bumpsy and Bruisey in there when they were 5 days old. Bumpsy passed away and Bruisey grew up strong enough to take care of himself inside the loft. So outside in the loft he went. We kept the room that way. I stuck her in there by herself w/ a heat lamp and water. When my husband got home about 10 min after I left. He gave the meds to her. So I haven't a clue on how much water was used.

[Janet]

Also- I was told to only give that one dose. She said to hold on to the other 1/2 in case another bird got sick. She said it was strong and would work rather quick and that I probably wouldn't need to give her another dose.

[Pidgey]

Well... you see it done that way with Spartrix (Carnidazole, a cousin to Metronidazole) a lot but with Metronidazole we usually dose them out for a few days, up to ten. The older formulary put it at 10 to 30 milligrams of medicine per kilogram of pigeon, orally, twice daily. It became normal to see almost twice that and then a 200 to 250 milligrams of medicine per kilogram of bird, orally, once daily.

Don't know how big this bird is--have you weighed him?

Pidgey

[Janet]

UUH! Pidgy- I didn't understand one thing you wrote. Little new at all this and this was the first time I gave my bird medicine. Maybe you can explain it again so that I understand. Sorry!