Tail Feathers

[enid]

Hi, Phil and other pigeon folk.

Thank you again for your help!

Daisy has a hairline fracture in one of his legs, so the vet put him in a splint/cast. He's started putting a little pressure on the leg, so I think that it's healing.

I bought him some pigeon mix and he's really taken to it. He doesn't have physical trouble eating, but he doesn't seem to eat unless I'm there with him.

He seems so sleepy and sad. He has such poor beak eye coordination and things seem to be getting worse. When I gave him some water to drink, he turned his head upside down and got his whole face and top of head wet. His reaction time was slow. He just puffed himself up while I wiped him off. Is there a risk that he could accidentally drown himself? I'm afraid to put water in his cage pulled himself into the shallow lid of water that I left.

He slept on my belly for a few hours today. He's so sweet.

The vet says he's a male. When I named him "Daisy" I thought that he was a little hen. The name stuck.

He doesn't have any bleeding or marks that would indicate that he lost his tail feathers in an attack.

I've got an appointment with the vet on Saturday.

Thank you again for all of your help. This is the first time that I've rescued a pigeon and I don't know what I'd do without insight from more experienced rescuers.

Enid

[pdpbison]

Hi enid,



Well...whatever the trauama was ( or is, if there is a disease process, ) there do seem to be some Neurological compromises going on.

Or, possibly, the head and neck issues are not Neurological, but instead have to do with strained muscles.

The Legs might be 'merely' strained also ( serious enough ) as well as the one Leg having the green fracture...so...the Leg issue might not be from any Nerve involvement in any other sense than that they are weak and painful from a strain or over-strain.

Or could be both Strains and Nerve impairments...


Missing Tails do not usually happen by themselves, so, she may have been caught by a larger Dog, stepped on however much, bruised and squished and so on, and a mouth full of Tail was left behind as she somehow wriggled out and flew off full of adrenalin, to have failing Legs and sore Neck and possibly lower Back injury and whatever else soon setting in.


When you let her drink, keep your finger tips on her Beak so she is steady'd and can not over dunk her face and head.

She will soon get used to you doing this, and she will not mind.

Making their Water 'tepid' is sometimes welcome for the convelesent Pigeon to drink...especially if they are 'thin'.

You can in fact guide her Beak into the Water that way, and also steady it as she drinks, so she does not dip in too far.

They can aspirate Water ( get Water into their Trachia and Lungs, which can be fatal, especially for a frail Pigeon ) when impaired co-ordination issues are effecting them...so yes, do be careful with that.


Strained muscles can take a week or two weeks to clear most of the way, maybe sooner...pulled tendons, longer...maybe three weeks...

Green fractures, ten days or twelve...if JUST that...but often there is sprain or strain also when a Bone is cracked or broken.


So all on all, I would expect a few weeks anyway...for her gradual improvements in these matters...and then on from there.


Pigeons are very 'social', and some are more social than others.


If she feels trusting and accepting of you, and clearly she does...she would prefer you 'eat' with her, and for one thing then, she feels safer that way since four Eyes are better than 'two' when it comes to the vulnerability or distraction of eating, in case who knows what preditor might show up...as well as just that she would like your company anyway for the occasions.


You can 'peck' the seeds with her, useing your crook'd index finger...and narrate all you like about whatever you like...and of course offer her lots of compliments of all sorts, on how nicely she is doing, and how pleased you are with her company, and her progress and so on.

It is not lost on them...when one does so.


Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas

[enid]

Hi, Phil et al.

Thank you for your suggestion to guide Daisy's beak into the water and to peck the seeds with my fingers. Both tips worked! Horaay!

Daisy's appetite was ravenous again today. He was slowly twisting his neck around and looking down and up. Is neck twisting a symptom for anything other than PMV? He doesn't have the diarrhea that seems to accompany PMV. He always has a healthy appetite (though it takes hours to feed him because he seems to lose attention or sometimes he forgets to open his beak to let in seeds).

Thanks again for your help.

enid
brooklyn

[Reti]

Neck twisting could indicate (aside from PMV) paratyphoid, meningitis, encephalitis, head trauma, calcium deficiency. That's all I can think off at this hour.

Reti

[pdpbison]

Hi enid,


As Reti mentioned, and far as know too...they can get twisty-heads from quite a few things.

PPMV can make for many differing presentations, and some of the suspected PPMV Pigeons I have gotten in at times, ate splendidly on their own form the get-go, and made perfect firm poops and never showed any diahrea or Watery Urates...but had the Head twisting and Star-Gazing and other posture things going on.

Injury from blunt or other physical trauma, also...can do it's versions.

Possibly there are at least several Viruses which can effect their Kidneys and Liver...as well as effecting various of their Neurological functions...as can various Bacteria or other micro-organisms...and it is very hard to determine what is doing it to them sometimes.


Good supportive care, the best nutrition we can provide, comfort, satefy, gentleness, and time, are the best we can do for them...whether or not we have a fairly probable diagnosis and or are providing medicines additionally.


Adult Birds who are compromised form illness are also likely to get caught by a Dog or Cat, so anytime I get one in showing signs of predation, I can usually expect them to have also been ill some time already before they were injured in a predation situation.


Sleep beconds, insistantly..!


Nighty night...


Phil
l v

[enid]

Hi, everyone.

Thanks again for your help. I have another question. Daisy can't stand up. So he's been laying on his belly most of the time. Consequently, his feathers are getting matted down. Right now they're not too bad, but I'm worried they'll get worse over time. Do you have any thoughts about how to keep them from getting matted down?

Best,

Enid
Brooklyn

[enid]

Hi, everyone.

Daisy took a turn for the worse last night and I took him back to the Wild Bird Fund today. His bird specialist said that he is doing very poorly. (Though he's gained .04 kilograms and his fractured leg healed!) She took a blood sample and tested his droppings. He has an infection, Coccidiosis, and a virus (possibly PMV, though not sure). No yeast (I've been giving him Nystatin). He's listless and barely moves. And even though he was ravenous last night, his digestion seemed to stop and his crop is still full even though he hasn't eaten today.

Anyway, she's not sure if he'll make it for more than a few days -- she thinks he'll probably die before the end of the week. Nevertheless, we're continuing to try and I'm going to do my best. She gave me Baytril and Carbo Vegtalis. I'm injecting .15 ml. of the Baytil twice a day. I'm giving him the Carbo Vegetalis every 30 minutes. And I've got Daisy on a heating pad.

Anyway, please cross your fingers for Daisy. And if you have any inspirational stories of near-death pigeons that you rescued, I would love to hear them.

Enid
Brooklyn

[myrpalom]

Hello Enid
I hope and pray for the best for Daisy.
PMV is a nasty virus, but not always lethal.
My pet pigeon Toto, now 15 years old, recovered from it.
As many others did in my pigeon rescue center (I had a PMV outbreak in 1998)
I gave them high doses of vitamins to have strenght to fight the virus.
Myriam

[Reti]

I am so sorry to hear the bird took a turn for the worse.
My Louis seemed to have no chance when found. He was all twisted and sleeping for two weeks, my vet recommended to put him down. I am glad I didn't follow his advise. I was tubing him three times a day, kept him in a box with a heating pad set on low and gave Baytril. When he came out of his coma he was able to stand straight for a few seconds. About two months later he was completely recovered.
I received three other birds from the same flock, both had a slow crop, vomiting and lethargy. I gave them injectable antibiotic (Fortaz) and Reglan, fluids and small feedings and water every few hours around the clock. Two of them made it.
Don't give up on your little sweety. Keep him warm, quiet and well hydrated and pray for the best.

Reti

[Maggie-NC]

Hi Enid

I will certainly keep Daisy in my thoughts and prayers. I wish I could pinpoint some of the birds we have rehabbed that were near death and recovered but, to tell the truth, there have been many. Also, we have had many that didn't make it but you learn to take one day at a time and do the best you can with all of them.

The Baytril will certainly help with the infection but she also needs medication for the coccidiosis. Coccidiosis can make a bird feel very bad but usually when treated get well quickly. We use a product called Sulmet that is put in the drinking water. While you are at it I would also get a wormer, something like Pyrantel, because 9 out of 10 birds that are sick have worms.

Wishing you the very best.

[enid]

Hi, everyone.

Thank you so much for your advice and stories.

Reti, your Louis's former condition sounds so much like Daisy. It is as though he's in a coma -- he's so sleepy. I'm crossing my fingers that he comes around just like your Louis did. Something seems to be working; I'm not sure if it's the Carbo Veg or the Baytril. I fed Daisy a few moments ago (his appetite is still good) and he flapped his wings a little bit for the first time since Thursday. He also seems a little more alert even though he spends most of his time with his eyes closed.

Myriam, it's terrific to hear about Toto!! How wonderful that he is still alive after PMV fifteen years later.

Lady Tarheel, Daisy does have worms. I think that his care giver at the Wild Bird Fund wanted to wait a few days before treating him for that because he is still such a young bird and she thinks the Baytril is very strong for him and didn't want him to be on too much medication at once. What do you think?

Below are a few pictures I took today. I've been experimenting with placing him different positions because he can't move himself and I'm not sure how comfortable he is. I tried putting him in a donut shaped towel, but it seemed like it bothered his weak legs. So now he is sleeping prostrate with his chest very slightly elevated from the rest of his body. He seems to like being held with his legs hanging down the best (the position I hold him in when he's eating) but my hands get tired!

xo, enid

[Reti]

He looks so sweet, all tucked in.
I hope and pray he'll pull through.
Dewormers can be hard on babies, so I guess it is a good idea to defer them as long as the worms aren't the cause of his poor condition.
Keep on doing what you're doing as it sems to be helping.

Reti

[Trees Gray]

Thank you for taking such good care of this bird.

If the youngster is fragile an extra dose of probiotics/kefir will help balance out to populate the good intestinal flora, allow the bird to better assimilate his food and help with any coccidiosis issues also. A drop of colloidal silver down the throat will also help with any bad bacteria and infection. You get an improved immune state without negative effects.

[Maggie-NC]

Hi Enid

Granted, right now Daisy doesn't look real good but often when they feel bad they close their eyes and just rest. We recently had one that looked just like that and it took several days for it to come around. I'm glad she is on Baytril.

You can give her a few more days without giving her a wormer. Did the wildlife folks say how badly infested she was? They can tell a lot from the stool specimen. If she had a lot, it might be worth it to give her a mild wormer anyhow.

[enid]

Hi, everyone.

I think that Daisy isn't too badly infested with worms because the vet didn't give me anything for them the first time I brought him in (when he was stronger).

I brought Daisy to work today and settled him into a box in my office on a heating pad and towels. It's nice to work in an environment where I can do this and people are interested and supportive.

I can't tell you how much all of your input means to me. What a kind, lovely community! This weekend, my boyfriend and I were half jokingly discussing the lessons we're learning from this sometimes emotionally draining experience. In all seriousness though, I really am learning how many caring people there are in the world. No matter what happens to Daisy, it's so nice to know that you're out there caring for little birds like him.

xo, enid